Gear level, the final nail in the games coffin.

People crunch numbers to much and never seem to factor in the human element when playing. I've put end game crap on hold to go back and work on simple things like crafting and gathering just cuz of this sort of stuff. Also I think the Dark light tank (no neck tin can with rabbit ears) looks dumb.

I can't wait until they implement this and some of the people saying stupid things like "You can't do Ifrit in AF gear!!11" have their heads explode when people who are "undergeared" (aka, freshly prepared for the fight) keep showing up in DF. Their tears will be delicious.

This is such a good thing and you guys just can't seem to see it. Like someone said before, it will show that certain people have unrealistic expectations and others are coming in unprepared. As long as people can form up whatever group they want server-side and go in, I really don't see this being an issue.

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Originally Posted by Spirea

Its so people using level 25 gear who fate farmed 20 levels can't enter AK and wipe the party because he gets 1-shotted as a tank or heals worse than a black mage.

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More aptly, it keeps me from even entering AK, since i only have AF and moogle weapons/GC weapons. how am i supposed to get darklight if i can not play the dungeons that give you tokens to get darklight?

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Originally Posted by Huginn

More aptly, it keeps me from even entering AK, since i only have AF and moogle weapons/GC weapons. how am i supposed to get darklight if i can not play the dungeons that give you tokens to get darklight?

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Castle whatmacallit gives 100 tokens from the last boss. Farm it. Get 2-3 pieces, then start doing AK.

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Originally Posted by April_Fool

What... theres no way this "FFXI" your talking about is Final Fantasy 11, if so get level 99 wear nothing but AF1 and go try to find a group for something. because last time i played FFXI about 8 months ago my AF3+2 wasn't "good enough" to do the current end game. As for your "Awesome FFXI Community" you speak of feel free to go back to them their alive and well same hand full of people that were playing the game back when it started are STILL playing that game but if you think "They just had fun doign it, win or lose." exists that never existed spend 12 hours fighting Absolute Virtue then lose and see how happy they were just to be a part of it...

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I thought we all were in agreement that FFXI died after they raised the level cap to 99. We don't acknowledge anything after level cap of 75.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

No matter how good you can be dressed in underwear and using a wooden plank, if you're in middle of a war it will never beat a body armor and a rifle. Im being metaphorical here but Its pretty much the same on FFXIV ( or rather every MMOs )

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It worked out for the little Ewoks on Endor!

My favorite ppl are the ones in Mor Dhona that stand around spamming either "Full darklight gear and relic weapon LF CM speed runs" or "LF DL geared x for CM speed run". LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Why retards? You can do a speed run in vendor whites. And Inb4 "It goes faster in better gear", LOLOLOLOL fail. I did a speed run with everyone lvl 45 vendor whites in 30 mins, lol i had 2 pieces of crafting jewelry on.. The people spamming this fail at their class and need that gear as a crutch for a speed run. Just for fun I got into one of these "lolleet super Speed runs". We finished in 35 mins with half of the DPS getting one shot because they cannot avoid red stuff. They were getting hit by like 3 red spots that were overlapping each other on the ground, and by sword swipes. I have yet to see more fail players in sooo much good gear.

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

I thought we all were in agreement that FFXI died after they raised the level cap to 99. We don't acknowledge anything after level cap of 75.

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Yeah... i still remember being told i was a garbage BLM because i didn't have a gear set to take my HP below 75% so that i could use a sorcerer's ring, which i also didn't have because they were 3 million (back when that meant something) and if you didn't spend hours trying to out claim bots on mysticmaker for the moldivite earring you wernt even worth taking to sky, or sea. the FFXI your talking about didn't exist, maybe if you were in some sort of casual linkshell that had fun camping leaping lizzy or level 10 dunes parties because when i played it was always about getting the gear or else you were "gimp" and no one wanted you. and god forbid you be a ninja without AF2 hands and byakko's haidate you would get shit on all day. like i said this "fantasy world" where everyone was carefree and got along didn't exist FFXI has some of the most elitest people i've ever met they could tell you every piece of gear you "need" to get just to put a monster to sleep for 1 extra second.

Wiping endlessly on Titan with people in level 35 gear would have been the nail in the coffin. I don't see how restricting people from doing that is a bad thing.

Sorry if you want to waste people's time by doing that, form a group manually and avoid the gear restriction of duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Mkilbride

FFXI was my favorite MMORPG, and yes, I know this isn't XI, and everyone here hates XI, but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back.

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Like many others have already stated, running into end-game dungeon with grey weapon and Lv.20 accessories expecting to be carried is just a form of bad attitude. Everyone else worked to get to where they are, by farming Castrum Meridian hours on end, so why do these special grey weapon individuals think they're entitled to share a pot of the loot when in fact, it is they (most of the time) that causes the fight to fail due to insufficient damage and repair cost/waste of time to everyone else.

SE couldn't deliver that patch any sooner to introduce gear-level limitation on dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Mkilbride

FFXI was my favorite MMORPG, and yes, I know this isn't XI, and everyone here hates XI, but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back.

Changes like this prevent a good community from forming.

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You'd be wrong saying that in FFXI "people didn't complain about your gear". In FFXI, people were quicker than ever to drop someone from a group with subpar gear... OR even a subpar race. Or just not being Japanese. JP only... ?

As others have stated, I just wanted to add my 2 cents to back them up, FF XI was far from this happy go lucky "they just had fun doing it, win or lose" community.

Mkilbride is either high then or is high now. FF XI is one of (I contend THE) most elitist gamer communities on the planet.

I think the issue, my friends, lies with the fact that there is a odd gap im seeing between 50-onward in gear lvs that I feel is kinda confusing.

In 14, it seems that the entire end game is a multi-tiered gear grind, with the former gear always completely useless for anything than the part it was tackling. Is skill, dodging aoes, great damage rotations, food and medicine buffs, all useless compared to gear alone?

Essentially, is there a such thing as "Geared enough" as well as "Well Geared" for these events? Im getting the impression many feel they are one in the same.

My own opinion is that I hope the gear limit at least addresses this "middle ground" of equipment. The "good enough" area of not cutting a steak with a butter knife, but using sharp functional dinnerware, and yet not using a 400$ tools of a chef.

All I want to do gather the gear I need, defeat the creature, return home victorious. I however, do not feel that we the player, must be told how to do that.

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Originally Posted by KimimiAvesta

o.O

This is absolutely *not* the experience I had with FFXI :O

(but I wish I did!)

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I hear ya, snide elites hanging around the fountain, sneering at your gear, not bothering to answer tells. Yea that's the XI I remember.
Best comment I ever got in XI was I healed pretty (mithra whm) ok in an all Jp group as an non Jp, their normal healer was getting an operation and I guess they were really desperate.

"In those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back." (paraphrased)

To be completely fair to this point, I played Final Fantasy 11 in its later years, (Aht Urgan to Abbysea) and this was very much my experience, probably because it was hard to get parties for many things at that point. You couldn't be too picky about whom you took because so few people were doing certain parts anymore. Those you took were generally decent geared, and furthermore, really wanted to do content. Was there a attitude of "your gear sucks?" yes there was, but not among players I chose/happened to play with. (and still we succeeded, perhaps slower than others though)

Perhaps we all have different memories of a time long gone?

just keep in mind all these leet pricks looking down on everyone cheated to get their gear by bypassing trash and exploiting currency resets

what if you are stacking materia into militia gear? Does this mean darklight is now essential not a different option?

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Originally Posted by Irondude

what if you are stacking materia into militia gear? Does this mean darklight is now essential not a different option?

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Iron here raises a really good point here. Will it be made so that materia increases an item's item level?

I'm sorry, but this is just stupid. It's one thing to restrict entry via duty finder based on a persons equipment level, but it is completely inexcusable to have a public gear rating system for people to harass and exclude people with. This will only breed elitism. It will not help anyone.

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Originally Posted by R-Odin

Iron here raises a really good point here. Will it be made so that materia increases an item's item level?

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Item level determines Marteria Stat Caps. It's prefactored in. The Class specific Crafted Gear is the second best gear in the game right now.

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Originally Posted by Hostar

Wiping endlessly on Titan with people in level 35 gear would have been the nail in the coffin. I don't see how restricting people from doing that is a bad thing. Sorry if you want to waste people's time by doing that, form a group manually and avoid the gear restriction of duty finder.

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6 Titan HM failed because the majority of the players have fail gear. The best was the WHM with mid-20s belt, several mid-30s accessories, AF and some low 40 staff. Then being accused by the same fail WHM for not spamming Cures2 and Regens enough.

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Originally Posted by Huginn

More aptly, it keeps me from even entering AK, since i only have AF and moogle weapons/GC weapons. how am i supposed to get darklight if i can not play the dungeons that give you tokens to get darklight?

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The level 49 eight man mission gives 100 Tomestones of Philosophy and it can be done pretty easily if you go to mor dhona you should see shouts for "CM" or you could even do that Tonberry dungeon its not very hard i wiped a few times while wearing AF but once you learn the tricks to them you won't have any problems, my advice for 4 man dungeons try and get friends on your server that one rage quit if someone dies once. hell even darkhold gives 40 Philosophy and thats a level 44 dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Huginn

More aptly, it keeps me from even entering AK, since i only have AF and moogle weapons/GC weapons. how am i supposed to get darklight if i can not play the dungeons that give you tokens to get darklight?

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For this situation, run the other 4 man dungeons. The Wanderer's Palace for example is a good place to get some tokens while getting intermediate gear that is better than AF. You can run AK and Ifrit with these drops easily. Other than AV (ick) they are faceroll enough to PUG with a bunch of fresh 50s in AF.

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Originally Posted by Terius

Glad its coming. Too many Dragoons with Lv 49 white Wep joining Garuda HM.

Only reason my 2nd ring and leggings are old'ish is because AK does not want to give them to me. Not seen my heal pants or a ring drop once in all the times I've done it. Bored of farming it.

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Did Garuda HM in full AF + level 49 white as a DRG. Garuda HM is piss easy

Must have full darklight to do the stuff that gets you full darklight. *sigh* This is the type of system that leads to shouts like these.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Did Garuda HM in full AF + level 49 white as a DRG. Garuda HM is piss easy

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I did Garuda HM with a dragoon that didn't even attack the boss, ran around the battlefield the whole fight and got killed by wind plumes, didnt even bother raising. Both of you got carried.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Item level determines Marteria Stat Caps. It's prefactored in. The Class specific Crafted Gear is the second best gear in the game right now.

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And you must not own any of it if you are still calling it class specific.

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Originally Posted by Ruprect

My favorite ppl are the ones in Mor Dhona that stand around spamming either "Full darklight gear and relic weapon LF CM speed runs" or "LF DL geared x for CM speed run".

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And what about the Posers?

Those guys who stand in the crowd with their relic+1 out showing off their glow to everybody, running in circles and casting spells to catch everyone's attention.

God, I hate Posers so much. The whole server and their dog have a relic weapon, nobody cares, it's nothing special.

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Originally Posted by Dorin

And what about the Posers?

Those guys who stand in the crowd with their relic+1 out showing off their glow to everybody, running in circles and casting spells to catch everyone's attention.

God, I hate Posers so much. The whole server and their dog have a relic weapon, nobody cares, it's nothing special.

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Heh, yeah. Saw plenty of them in 1.0 as well. It's like cool, you have that, now go USE it.

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Originally Posted by Mkilbride

Welp. Now, we'll see shouts "LF X class, with gear level x"
+ rest of complaining

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Honestly, join an FC which plays as casually and 'non-elitist' as yourself.

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Originally Posted by Mortechai

Must have full darklight to do the stuff that gets you full darklight. *sigh* This is the type of system that leads to shouts like these.

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No the system won't require average ilvl 60 to enter a 60 dungeon. It will probably require only average ilvl 46 to enter Wanderer's Palace, then average ilvl 51 to enter AK, and average ilvl 56 for Ifrit.

The stupid people that are already calling ilvl 60 for a ilvl 60 dungeon are already doing so, it will mean nothing to them.

It's the majority of the regular minded people that have minimum expectations who only want you to do stuff the REGULAR way, STEP BY STEP, ilvl 50 >> 55 >> 60, that wil benefit most.

Great, I am tired of having a player queueing for garuda with level, i kid you not, 40 weapons, af gear, and level 20 accessories. This has got to end. I cannot stand having to carry one or more people that refuse to actually gear for the content they are attmpemting.

I do not expect full darklight, but i do expect at least a piece or two, some gear from ak, and the level 50 gc weapon. Seriously, this is all too common.

I just got a tank with a level 36 weapon trolling my wanderers palace dungeon party.
They at least need a minimal gearcheck

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Originally Posted by Mkilbride

FFXI was my favorite MMORPG, and yes, I know this isn't XI, and everyone here hates XI, but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back.

Changes like this prevent a good community from forming.

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People did complain about your gear if it wasn't that great. You just happened to play with people who didn't. The same thing exists in this game as well. Just find people who are looking for a similar experience and let the other ones go with people they want to. Simple, easy, and yes gear checks are somewhat important to prevent people who just AoE spammed fates ruin other peoples time. If you find that elitist then I guess it's elitist, but quoting that 11s community was great and people didn't care just meant you were playing with the casual set.

My AK run tonight....had a guy show up who didn't even have monk unlocked just pugilist. When he figured out we wouldn't carry him through he started training mobs on people trying to kill them, then just went afk but showed up every now and then to jump so he didn't go afk.

http://i39.tinypic.com/zum9hi.png

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

For every person that makes this statement. There are 10 great players that clear content the aforementioned person has never seen with lesser gear and greater skill.

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I would agree with that. I think there are valid points on both sides, and I've been in DF parties where someone showed up completely undergeared for Titan Hard (and cost us (they died quickly due to an undodgeable skill Titan uses)). I think one aspect of "Gear Score" that bugs me (I can't speak for everyone) is that:

* It tries to label you as a NUMBER. As if all that you are, and all your skill and intangibles are somehow magically boiled down to a mere NUMBER that tries to define you.

That is what bugs me and probably some of those opposing Gear Score. There's simply no way to label each person's Skill, Smarts, Intangibles, Personality, etc. into a Number.

But at the same time, Gear Score would prevent really disastrous, severely undergeared players from entering an Instance that just can't be beat without a minimum amount of Defense, HP, DPS, etc. It's Yoshi P's new world. I would be OK with a Gear Score system if:

1. It's Confidential (displayed only to you). The Duty Finder can still lock you out, but at least it's not some Numerical Label / Bragging / Ridicule Tool for others.

2. The Gear Score Minimum isn't demanding "Top 1% Gear Or Get Out!" limits. There should still be leeway where Skill would beat out Gear (after a certain minimum is met), and that it wasn't all about Gear.

3. It's only with Duty Finder Parties. So that you can bring in Fully Formed Local Parties (w/ Friends / LS / FC mates) that you might be helping out / training / helping them clear (even if they are slightly undergeared).

Thanks.

Where are all the under geared success stores with their runs against HM Titan? Where are their instructional strat Titan HM videos? For the life of me, all I ever see are HM Ifrit & HM Garuda runs that they were carried through but the campfire stories never seem to include HM Titan.

I find it hilarious that the vast majority of the people I see posting here to complain about this don't even have a level 50 class... unless the website has just failed to update your character since you hit level 17... I think you should wait to judge the content until you have actually RAN THE CONTENT FFS!

For those who are level 50 and have seen this I see two crowds forming. Those who are totally for this, and those who are for this, but with reservations. I would venture to guess that they are not going to REQUIRE an iLvl on content that drops the same level of gear, since it would then be impossible to run said content... ever. It will likely be one or two tiers lower than the content itself which is reasonable.

I think all anyone is complaining about is people going into these dungeons with level 20-40 gear on and expecting to be carried. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason not to have a full set of gear that is better than I think 42/43 and I would venture to guess that the only piece that is sitting at that level would be a ring. Why? Because they give you all this gear through quests. You don't have to pay for the gear, you don't have to endlessly grind content, go run the stupid quests. If you had actually just done all the quests from 45-50 you wouldn't even have this problem. Your weapon should either be a GC level 45 green or a quest level 49 white.

These are not *tough* requirements. This is not elitist. This is just us telling you to PLAY THE GAME. With that minimum requirement, you can clear AK, Ifrit and Garuda if you are skilled enough. I cannot speak for Titan since I haven't tried, but I also don't have 3k health yet, which is a little bit tougher since I am a mage. My lowest piece of gear is 45.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

I find it funny that people think this is an elitist thing.

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It is considered an elitist thing because even if your stupid gear level is a few points off or something (like say, you're missing a belt or gloves) you're gonna be told you cant go because you're too under geared. And even with gear levels that's no guarantee that the player is at all competent. They could be playing a friends account, they could have been power-leveled by a friend, or even bought their character off Ebay or from a gil-seller. Gear levels are pointless and only serve as a point of discrimination.

I agree however that you should play the game if you have any intention of doing the raids or whatnot, but gear levels are totally necessary, you should be rated by your competence not the random numbers on your gear.

Also ChickensEvil: Just because someone isn't level 50 on here doesn't mean diddly, there are other mmos out there, and some of us are speaking from past experience with previous MMOs.

But again I say, I agree that players need to play the game and they will have sufficient protection, but just relegating us to a number and claiming that will indicate just how reliable and competent we are is like giving a drivers license to a 16 year old and expecting excellent driving because of their age.

Why cant people realize their obsessive idea about how FFXI was the perfect game is just nostalgia.

FFXI had elitists too. That's reality.

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Originally Posted by Eshura

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The thing is, as mentioned above, you can't measure skill, and despite how much people want to kick and scream about gear score, or how skill trumps gear, there simply are gear checks within content that should be met, and some people either are unaware of them, or choose to ignore them. Yes, gear score and restrictions on the duty finder are necessary either so people are aware they do not meet the gear requirements, or to stop people from trying to sneak in and affect 7 other players.

What it will do is, when you try to use DF, if someone has the gear but lack skill, you will leave and queue back into players that have the gear, and hopefully have increased skill; You're gambling against one variable, not two. And I think someone already pointed this out, but just because some people claim you need full Darklight to do it, it doesn't necessarily mean you do, and I'm sure Squeenix know better than the 'elitist' player base.

Even with the gear checks, since 90% of content is DF'able, you won't have to deal with 'elitists' that want you to be geared to the teeth for the content, because so far the only content you can't DF is BCoB, and incidentally, you do need some pretty significant gear for that (on top of skill/coordination etc). 'Bad' players will get rooted out through natural selection on server-based content, and they'll either come complain about the game being too hard, or move onto the next game.

I've said it before, but I hope SE wait a couple of months before 'tuning' content so they can at least support the attitude of their paying customers, and not those that are going to stop at the end of the month.

How did this get 40 pages? Tried to read the first couple, but to much repeating going on.