YOSHI FIX THE DANG GIL ISSUE THAT IS KILLING OUR PLAYERS!!!

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

Yeah the game dont need easy gil. Now they reduce repair cost so hopefully this will keep everyone going berserk at bay. At most perhaps we could go back to the old Teleport point system back in 1.0. It was free and refresh 6 pts per day. That way gils will sink even less. People are spamming FATE's like there no tomorrow, so tons of gils are being created even if its a few per person.

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There's plenty of easy gil to be had!!! Just walk into any major city and listen to the shout channel.

Part of the reason people aren't making money is because they are being very dumb on the market, selling for less than what the item sells to an npc vendor. Another problem is that there is almost no need to buy player made equipment, since a skilled player can tough it out and assemble good gear by completeing quests. While I normally have no problem with receiving the occasional armor piece or weapon as a quest reward, when you can fill your armory chest AND inventory with an arsenal from quests alone, it meansthere is almost no demand on the market for weapons and armor until you're ready for the relic quests. It also means there is no real reason for crafters to craft, since there is zero chance of making any kind of profit until endgame.

Hate to say I told you so, but I did.

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Originally Posted by gti443

There's plenty of easy gil to be had!!! Just walk into any major city and listen to the shout channel.

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That is another problem: the people stupid enough to buy gil. How much do you want to bet that a large percentage of the people undercutting the markets are gilseller accounts? If that isn't enough reason to be wary of these websites, the fact that the bots spam shouting in the towns and sending ghost tells are very likely hacked and/or stolen accounts should be another red flag to a smart player.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

That is another problem: the people stupid enough to buy gil. How much do you want to bet that a large percentage of the people undercutting the markets are gilseller accounts? If that isn't enough reason to be wary of these websites, the fact that the bots spam shouting in the towns and sending ghost tells are very likely hacked and/or stolen accounts should be another red flag to a smart player.

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I mean yeah, but what else is new? RMT is a fact of life in just about every game. But... the more ways there are to make a reasonable income IN GAME the less likely people are to turn to RMT. That comes down to gold going into and out of the economy via NPC or some other system.

I don't know if I would say undercuts are necessarily the fault of RMT. The bottom line is some people are doing well and made hundreds of thousands or millions of gil but it's been a bubble economy.

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Originally Posted by gti443

I mean yeah, but what else is new? RMT is a fact of life in just about every game. But... the more ways there are to make a reasonable income IN GAME the less likely people are to turn to RMT. That comes down to gold going into and out of the economy via NPC or some other system.

I don't know if I would say undercuts are necessarily the fault of RMT. The bottom line is some people are doing well and made hundreds of thousands or millions of gil but it's been a bubble economy.

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I'm not saying that all undercutters are RMT, but considering that gilsellers often exploit multiple mechanics of a game to make lots of money, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility either.

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Originally Posted by Kuari

Limited money supply rather than a constant growing one is key to a stable economy. Simple as that. Though money shrinking too much is also bad, thus the issue with repair costs. Can't allow too much money at a rapid rate because it devalues it. Inflation is not your friend. Hell, you're better off with deflation as long as its not at an extreme level.

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In a healthy, stable economy you want moderate inflation. This increase in the money supply allows the economy to grow and thrive. Rampant inflation is bad, as it devalues the currency faster than players can earn and extract utility from the currency. Deflation stagnates trade because it is better to hold a currency than to buy things. MMO designers/operators have the unique ability to monitor and control the money supply in their game. They have all the information needed to adjust the sinks and faucets to have a healthy economy.

Tank/Bard i see not problem i have over 2.5mil from mining/botany/fishing! You can not with all honesty expect to cover your costs with dungeon and levi's alone. You need to gather, craft, sell, buy, craft gather. Not in that order but you get the drift. In any MMO if you focus only on content and never bother to work on a method of income, you level will surpass you armor and at 50 you wll be rocking to level 30 accessories. Mind you the people over charging on the wards are as much to blame for RMT, as the people who are to lazy to go and make there own bread.

Many are still selling at 1.0 prices 1,000,000 rather then 100,000, 20,000 rather then 2,000, and so on. RMT pop up when there is demand, for there supply, and we the normal players are the one's that are inviting them over. I had 25mil in 1.o, i have 2.5mil after the drop of a "0", yet people on the markets expect to get 1,000,000 for an item that sold for 1mil in 1.o. In translation that asking for 10,000,000!

OP you are not allow to speak for me. I have no problem with gil making and all I've done so far is the storyline, fates, instances, and leves. I haven't even tried making money and I have more money then what I started as on day one of beta 4. I was one of many 1.0's who had millions of gil and SE took most of it from me but I didn't complain. I ate crow and kept playing and I'm basically at half a mil now without even trying.

My jobs are all DD and Tank so I have to repair my armor at least twice a day.

Combat class generate nearly 0 gils (the repair cost are still too high compared to gil dropped and time spent).
Combat class get 0 loot to sell in market. Crafting component from AK are worthless in market since you can drop them outside anyway. All drop are BoP/Unique and cannot be converted to materia.

Crafter can generate gil with leves (3 to 9 times more than combat class)
Crafter can sell items in market (not sure it will last)

I guess there is no problem !

Since a major gil sinking element in the game has been nerf down, this issue shouldn't be a huge problem as much as pre-patch now. But if anyone were to say anything that is meant to be taken seriously, please at least leave out crafting (unless you are NPCing at any point), AH or any forms of trading that relates to player-to-player, out of your equation.

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Originally Posted by Thotor

Combat class generate nearly 0 gils (the repair cost are still too high compared to gil dropped and time spent).
Combat class get 0 loot to sell in market. Crafting component from AK are worthless in market since you can drop them outside anyway. All drop are BoP/Unique and cannot be converted to materia.

Crafter can generate gil with leves (3 to 9 times more than combat class)
Crafter can sell items in market (not sure it will last)

I guess there is no problem !

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WHAT?! Classes based on commerce make more money than classes based on killing things? Shocker of the century!

If you only utilize a very narrow selection of your equally available resources, you have literally no room to complain about not being able to exploit them all. You're simply lazy or too single target driven to figure it out. Theses are choices you make, not some damning consequences of game design. You can access all the classes, so nothing is stopping you from doing so except you.

Get a rusty pickaxe, go outside Uldah, mine shards. Crafters never stop needing them and they're much more difficult to get in 2.0. Shards/crystals=money.

Why is anyone against the idea of improving an economy. And if you don't think that there is a problem, (which there is and you are stupid and probably should take a few more math classes) you will make even MORE money from this. So really you are just a bunch of mad fan boys trying to shoot down any idea that is not your own. (which probably would be actually horrible ideas, thank god you don't voice them) Not gonna lie seeing half the the mentally handicapped reply's that are in this post, I almost think that half of the entire mentally handicapped population plays this game. Also if money wasn't an issue why did they SIGNIFICANTLY lower repair costs? Hmmmm food for thought. Good Post Chiruru53, You make fine points and are very well informed. Sorry people sink so low to edit tags but retards are everywhere. Don't worry, one day I will place them all in my group home.

Stopped reading after two pages:

Real Life:
Mail:
Postage costs $.50 to send a letter. That $.50 goes to the Post Office to cover their costs for processing and delivering that letter. They now have $.50 more in their bank account to spend on something else and this is repeated over and over again.

FF14: (saying 50g to keep the numbers the same)
Postage costs 50g to send a letter. That 50g goes poof and is never seen from again. The Mail Moogle does not have your 50g - it has left the game forever.

Before sending the letter in game there was 1 million gil actively available in the game. After sending it there is now 999,999.50 gil in the game. Everything involving spending Gil in this game causes Gil to be removed from the game permanently.

Personal Wealth is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Moirweyn

Stopped reading after two pages:

Real Life:
Mail:
Postage costs $.50 to send a letter. That $.50 goes to the Post Office to cover their costs for processing and delivering that letter. They now have $.50 more in their bank account to spend on something else and this is repeated over and over again.

FF14: (saying 50g to keep the numbers the same)
Postage costs 50g to send a letter. That 50g goes poof and is never seen from again. The Mail Moogle does not have your 50g - it has left the game forever.

Before sending the letter in game there was 1 million gil actively available in the game. After sending it there is now 999,999.50 gil in the game. Everything involving spending Gil in this game causes Gil to be removed from the game permanently.

Personal Wealth is irrelevant.

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Unlike real life there are also many things int he game that generate money from nowhere, just most of it is not on battle classes, or the bets of it at least

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Originally Posted by Moirweyn

Stopped reading after two pages:

Real Life:
Mail:
Postage costs $.50 to send a letter. That $.50 goes to the Post Office to cover their costs for processing and delivering that letter. They now have $.50 more in their bank account to spend on something else and this is repeated over and over again.

FF14: (saying 50g to keep the numbers the same)
Postage costs 50g to send a letter. That 50g goes poof and is never seen from again. The Mail Moogle does not have your 50g - it has left the game forever.

Before sending the letter in game there was 1 million gil actively available in the game. After sending it there is now 999,999.50 gil in the game. Everything involving spending Gil in this game causes Gil to be removed from the game permanently.

Personal Wealth is irrelevant.

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Nice points :)

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

Unlike real life there are also many things int he game that generate money from nowhere, just most of it is not on battle classes, or the bets of it at least

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levequest
guildhest
FATE
dungeon
quests
NPC

did i miss any?

hardly called "many" and i think all of them are from battle classes, and some from crafting.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

Unlike real life there are also many things int he game that generate money from nowhere, just most of it is not on battle classes, or the bets of it at least

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Also in real life I don't have to repair my clothes everyday. And if I did the money would go to the mender, not into a fire never to be seen again.

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Originally Posted by eeto

levequest
guildhest
FATE
dungeon
quests
NPC

did i miss any?

hardly called "many" and i think all of them are from battle classes, and some from crafting.

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That is a lot of sources of gil.

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Originally Posted by Arcturius

Why is anyone against the idea of improving an economy. (snipping the childish nonsense)

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Look at the big brain on Brad....you know, the guy with no crafting or gathering class above level 1.

Seriously, maybe you should stop talking out of your ass like you know something. I can make 3500 gil using one leve allowance, that's not gil coming from someone else, that is newly generated gil. In the process of farming the material I need for said leve, I generate an additional few thousand gil selling unneeded materials to other crafters. So I get to take some money out of the economy (temporarily because I am not personally a gil sink), and I get to put some in. And my costs for repairs in the way I do it are so negligible its ridiculous. By the time I make 80k gil from Leves I might need to spend 500 gil on repairs. Wooo, how will I ever cope?

But see, when you never take the time to do anything other then play a battle class, you have a very skewed and inaccurate view of the economy. The economy doesn't need to improve, your choices do. My highest class is 34 and I have 500k gil and I've not even been trying yet. So what's your problem, big talk guy?

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Originally Posted by Phogg

WHAT?! Classes based on commerce make more money than classes based on killing things? Shocker of the century!

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You can't sell to people with no money... a point that seems to be lost on crafter and gatherer evangelists.

people saying to not listen to crafters or to count out crafters when they say they have no problem making gil are closed minded and never want to have to pick up a craft to progress in the game. Crafters have and will always have a large hand in the economy and its time to deal with it or be broke forever.

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Originally Posted by gti443

You can't sell to people with no money... a point that seems to be lost on crafter and gatherer evangelists.

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Yea, it's almost a shame that you can only have one class per character

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Originally Posted by gti443

You can't sell to people with no money... a point that seems to be lost on crafter and gatherer evangelists.

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It's their own fault they have no money, not mine. Like I said, you can make 3500 brand new shiny gils out of thin air with a single leve allowance (do 10 a day and that's 35,000 new gil pumped into the economy by a single player every day), some people just choose not to. That's what we in the business call a "you problem".

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Originally Posted by Jennica

That is a lot of sources of gil.

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I listed them to show they all involve battle classes - and some exclusively. Without them or if their reserves are sinking, who has the gils to buy stuff made by the crafters...?

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Originally Posted by Phogg

If you only utilize a very narrow selection of your equally available resources, you have literally no room to complain about not being able to exploit them all. You're simply lazy or too single target driven to figure it out. Theses are choices you make, not some damning consequences of game design. You can access all the classes, so nothing is stopping you from doing so except you.

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In the world of 2.0, I have to disagree with you. When they made the choice to stop allowing DoH/DoL to progress you through the main storyline, they relegated these classes to side classes. No one, ever, should be forced to craft and level side classes in order to support the actual playing of the game via war/magic classes. If this was 1.0, you would have a point, but it's not. The game designers made the decision to move these crafting classes to a secondary position, they remain secondary, an alternative for people that enjoy them.

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Originally Posted by Arcturius

Also in real life I don't have to repair my clothes everyday. And if I did the money would go to the mender, not into a fire never to be seen again.

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The same said fire that generates new gil for leves and such?

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

In the world of 2.0, I have to disagree with you. When they made the choice to stop allowing DoH/DoL to progress you through the main storyline, they relegated these classes to side classes. No one, ever, should be forced to craft and level side classes in order to support the actual playing of the game via war/magic classes. If this was 1.0, you would have a point, but it's not. The game designers made the decision to move these crafting classes to a secondary position, they remain secondary, an alternative for people that enjoy them.

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You arent being forced. There are many ways to make money, it's just DoH and DoL classes give the most direct route to capital. There are clever way to make money as a battle class. Have you played FFXI by chance, when it was first released in the states?

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Originally Posted by Phogg

Look at the big brain on Brad....you know, the guy with no crafting or gathering class above level 1.

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All i did was looked at your level and laughed. Nice job pulling the random numbers out of your ass. LOLOL. I am not having trouble with money but I know what people are talking about XD. The whole 500 gil on repairs. pfft do you even know how much it is to repair lvl 50 gear little boy? oh I forgot you are lvl 34 XD. I have over 700k generated from leves but I am slowly on the decline and until I have real problems I will start crafting. Just don't find it fun. Still loling over your funny ass level XD. Oh and my brothers name is Brad. So that is kind of funny. Level 34... Just.... Stop... Retard meter... Rising... But you have intrigued me. I shall start crafting and get it to 50 before you ever hit 50. XD level 34. Sit down

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

No one, ever, should be forced to craft and level side classes in order to support the actual playing of the game via war/magic classes.

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Good news! You don't have to level anything! Unlock botany and spend 10 minutes using it walking 15 feet outside of town and you will make enough money to support your next dungeon run. IN TEN WHOLE MINUTES! If that is too much work for you, well, enjoy being poor. You are choosing not to exploit ways to make money off of the crafters.

Hell, don't even unlock botany, go farm something useful to crafters on your battle class for an hour and you'll have a nice 25-50k in your retainer shortly after. People keep asking for mobs to drop gil, well, they do. It's just not in the form of gil until you sell it to someone with enough sense to generate their own gil. I've already debunked this nonsense about that just leading to no one having money because you can make insane amounts of gil from Leves as a crafter, so you lazy battle class types don't need to worry your pretty little heads over where the gil is coming from. But hey, keep throwing the term retard around, because that does so much for your image.

There, solved all your problems, now it just boils down to how lazy you are, or how poorly you manage your time.

......

The ever brilliant Arcturius says:

"All i did was looked at your level and laughed. Nice job pulling the random numbers out of your ass. LOLOL. I am not having trouble with money but I know what people are talking about XD. The whole 500 gil on repairs. pfft do you even know how much it is to repair lvl 50 gear little boy? oh I forgot you are lvl 34 XD. I have over 700k generated from leves but I am slowly on the decline and until I have real problems I will start crafting. Just don't find it fun. Still loling over your funny ass level XD. Oh and my brothers name is Brad. So that is kind of funny. Level 34... Just.... Stop... Retard meter... Rising... But you have intrigued me. I shall start crafting and get it to 50 before you ever hit 50. XD level 34. Sit down"

OK epeen guy. The comment about my costs is to explain how you are doing it wrong. What does it matter if my main class is 34 when the class I make money on is, oh yeah, 34 also. Yes my repairs are low at that level, that's you know, kind of the point. I make money smartly, you probably don't know what I'm even talking about. But just FYI, until you bring anything relevant to the discussion, I won't bother responding to your jibberish in future. Can't help those that don't want to be helped. But hey, keep throwing the word retard around and thinking people's level has any correlation to literally anything of substance. Ever classy.

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Originally Posted by Tone19

The same said fire that generates new gil for leves and such?

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A level 23 thinking that the leves make more than repairs cost. Funny. For every 3k I make doing leve's, AT 50, I repair for 4k It is a slow decline but it is there.

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Originally Posted by MrSmiley

Unlike real life there are also many things int he game that generate money from nowhere, just most of it is not on battle classes, or the bets of it at least

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Actually, money is generated from nowhere these days. Look into central banks and what money is based on... I'll save you some time, nothing.

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Originally Posted by eeto

did i miss any?

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guildhest - leves - limited to 4 and 3 every 12 hours - not so great
FATE - no one does those for gil
dungeons - at 50 the repair bills are stupid so you end up losing (I hear it all the time from the FC mates)
quests - will end as will the gil from them
NPC - as a whole they take more than they give

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Originally Posted by Jennica

That is a lot of sources of gil.

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And each one of them also have expenses related to them and the gil spent on those expenses goes into the SE Gil Black Hole.

The only good thing that will come from this SE Gil Black Hole is a forced retardation of inflation.

More Gil = More Prices = Same gil, bigger number.
No thanks.

Once crafting becomes non-profitable, then I'll worry. Right now I have made 300k(this doesnt count the gil I made from questing) without crafting from selling materia and relic items. Then take crafting into account and your profits are much larger. You do realize that gil farmers are dumping money into the economy as well by creating new characters and spamming quests, it then gets placed right into the market board by people who waste their real money. This helps slow down inflation with their current system. As others are saying, its really your fault that your poor.

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Originally Posted by Moirweyn

I am not poor, not by any means but people keep confusing this with personal wealth.

This is not about personal wealth at all. It has nothing to do with how much money you have on your character.

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As said 300k is how much I made from selling on the market board from finding items in dungeons and selling materia as well. I haven't included the crafting amount as I don't craft but a friend does. I've made more gil from the market board then I have from leveling 1-50 on my first class. I have more then 500k, but most of it was made on the market board. I don't see and issue with making gil right now like many of you guys are pointing out.

As it is now, you can make gil without crafting by selling materia and relic items. You should be in a massive surplus. Anyone that fails to look at that is shooting themselves in the foot. Thinking that the gil is draining from the economy slowly is also too early to say as new characters add gil into the economy. You have to remember that Square-Enix is also using this system to combat the inflation that gil farmers cause. They can simply make a new character and add another 200k+ into the market by questing alone. Because of this, the market board will be where you make gil in this game.

I am not poor, not by any means but people keep confusing this with personal wealth.

This is not about personal wealth at all. It has nothing to do with how much money you have on your character.

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Originally Posted by Phogg

There, solved all your problems, now it just boils down to how lazy you are, or how poorly you manage your time.

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I have all of my crafts except cooking at 40 and above. My husband has cooking around 40 something, and mining and botany at 50. Your argument is invalid.

We did it this way on purpose. I enjoy crafting, he enjoys gathering, and we both enjoy being self sufficient. However, both of us have noticed that if you level only DoW/DoM (as anyone is free to do, again, crafting is a SIDE CLASS) you have a serious gil insufficiency. We leveled this way on purpose, but we also both feel that crafting/gathering should not be necessary. The devs agree with that, otherwise DoH/DoL would be able to progress you through the storyline. When it's more gil efficient for me to just craft new gear rather than pay to repair it, there's a problem. Obviously, again, the devs agree with that or they wouldn't have lowered the price of repairs/dark matter.

After the reduction to repair cost I'm not as worried about level 50 repair costs as I was. Seems like even if you want to run purely combat related activities your 6 leve allowances will cover a full repair for the day. I reserve the right to reverse my opinion once I hit 50 and actually see how much wear comes from running dungeons.

That said if you need to make more cash than that you'll need to level a crafting class and do crafting leves instead. It doesn't look like they'd be that much more until you realize that turning in HQ items triples the gil given, and that the 3 turn in leves can be repeated 2 more times for a total of 9x the stated gil if all 9 items are HQ.

You aren't going to be pulling in the cash that Phogg is listing, he's over exaggerating a bit but he's not far off. You are limited by the 6 leve recharge a day, and some of the more profitable ones will drive you insane by the sheer amount of time it takes to put together the 54 HQ items in that day to turn in. There could be an extremely easy alchemist leve to turn in that could net you the 3500 gil each day, I suspect it's got to be the 35 level one as the level 30 ones I currently have are base 300gil (2700 for a 3x3). I'll check with my alchemist buddy, might lead to me leveling alchemist over the weekend!

If you want an easy one to turn leve allowances into gil, the level 1 armorsmith leve is a 3 x 3 HQ bronze ingots that's ~900 gil per 9 HQ bars repeatable 6 times a day with your leve allowance. That's 5400 gil for 54 HQ bars. The ingredient cost is 54 ice shards, 108 copper ore and 54 tin ore. The copper and tin can be bought off the supplier for 324 gil, and the 54 ice shards can be farmed in about 5 or 6 minutes if you find a good spot and have 100% chance on the shard, which doesn't take many levels in gatherer to achieve.

I think I started making 100% HQ bronze ingots at around 20 in armorer, so you may have to level the crafting class a bit but once you've done it you can pull in a 5k profit each day with about 20-30 minutes of work.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...02#post1251302


any ideas to fix how things are? This post highlights the problems and shows some possible fixes

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Originally Posted by Arkavius

If people are paying repair costs all the time, because they're most likely speed-runining the dungeons with constance rezs.
That's their fault.

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Dying remove 2% durability.
Running a dungeon without death from 10 to 25% (depending on dungeons).

Dying is less expensive. (First MMO I see that happening)