The Alliance roulette is unbearable

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Originally Posted by Chie_M

Thanks for the personal attack. It was a nice touch.

The whole purpose of this thread that people are selecting what they want and removing what they don't want.

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It's actually about people taking off gear to get into a CT raid.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

It's actually about people taking off gear to get into a CT raid.

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You can just get LotA and Syrcus so you can avoid WoD.
As long as you can enter 2 raids/dungeons etc then roulette will be available.

I never paid attention to that when I was new but it makes sense of how much I kept getting Labyrinth these days and how you could even progress through MSQ with roulette at start
Although funny enough the first week of EW it was all Ivalice/Copied Factory, now it is mostly back to CT.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

So you wasted 2.5 hrs to avoid a 20 min duty… ok

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Those are only wasted 2.5 hours if you stare at a wall while you wait for the penalty to run out.
And I'd personally put staring at a wall and doing CT on the same level so literally doing anything else is already an improvement.

Nah, I will continue to strip naked for my easy peasy roulette. Roulette should take too much time and ruin my day.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

For ct? Wow. Never more than 20 for myself. 15ish if syrcus. Wonder why your experience is so vastly different

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I'm pretty unlucky when it comes to roulettes, had several WoD's a while ago where the shadowlurkers spawned against the cloud of darkness, enemies which have like, 1 one image on google images
people just would do nothing but stand around, neither doing DPS nor doing the few mechs the raid has
can't do anything against laziness ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Menriq

So for those thinking this is a bug or not intended, I'm putting it to the test. I created a bug report (https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...94#post5819594) and SE reviews these and puts them in a category. We'll see where this report ends up and we can go from there.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

No, but if it's not flagged as a bug, and it's been around for this long with absolutely zero comment from SE, it would indicate that at the least it's working as intended as of now.

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If it's not flagged as a bug, it's potentially because bug reports often get knocked back if they're essentially improvement requests rather than things that are functionally broken – but also in this case, it's going to get rejected because you stated the problem in a way that is wide open to being labelled "working as intended" even if ilevel cheese itself is not.

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Steps:
1. Have a character with a job and level above item level 70 with more than the Crystal Tower Alliance raids unlocked
2. Remove gear as necessary so that you only have the minimum item level of 70.
3. Queue for Alliance Roulette
4.) Put gear on that is above item level 70 for that same job.
5.) You will always queue into either LotA or ST instead of being queued into any other Alliance Roulette you would normally qualify for

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If the algorithm is tuned to make sure people get what they are able to achieve in their current equipment at the time of queuing, then you have described it working as it should, regardless of the intent behind the actions.

I've filed a number of bug reports over time about things not working ideally in the game, and they get rejected as "not a bug report" or "working as intended" even when they really could and should be fixed – and this is for simple things like the Crystarium sundries shop not stocking dyes or the timer in the 5.3 solo instance being so short you get warned that you're running out of time to complete the instance when proceeding at the pace set by the story presentation. I don't know who actually processes the bug reports but I'm not convinced that it's someone who has a good knowledge of the game or much say in making improvements to it if the thing isn't actively broken.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

I've dropped 5 times in a row now because I enter into a CT raid, find that nobody is new, and people's hp suddenly doubling. At this might might as well just direct que for what I want, and abandon Alliance roulette like I already abandoned FL roulette.

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Some people play the gear game but even without this, there are good chances you’ll get CT over other raids even if everyone is has already unlocked CT.

People’s health gets adjusted in there at the beginning no matter what and there can be some health boosts.

Due to the way the game is designed, it has a bias towards CT and several cumulative factors come into play in addition to it being a mandatory part of MSQ.
1. It’s a roulette so even if everyone is lvl 80+ with all unlocks and no other factor, you’d still have a basic 25% chance to get a CT raid
2. If one is working on the MSQ, there are many quests between the time you finish CT and the time where you can possibly unlock another raid. Chances are you will be well past lvl 60 by the time you are able to unlock both the next raid series and the gear.
3. Other raids are optional. You can easily bypass their questlines and have only CT unlocked for the rest of your game.
4. Some may be doing their relic quest/ Wondrous Tails and have selected those raids specifically. As for Wondrous Tails, I personally never queue for a specific raid other than CT. Other activities are faster.
5. Free trial accounts are capped at lvl 60 so that already bars them from the last 2 raid series.

The only way to address some of this and encourage ppl to unlock the other raids could be to create separate roulettes, 1 for CT and one for the optional raids and add incentives to unlock and do all content. Creating more than 2 roulettes would only fragment the available player base and just create endless queues for everything.

Sadly, the available AR player pool will always get smaller and smaller as you progress. I know that I will specifically not unlock the last Nier raid on characters other than my first. Despite the adjustments they made, the visuals still affect me. When the next raid series comes out, I will carefully look at it before unlocking it and if it’s visually another bright monochromatic thing such as Tower at Paradigm or P3, I will pass instead of adding content that makes me sick to my roulette.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

It's actually about people taking off gear to get into a CT raid.

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You... do realise that's the same thing, right? That's selecting what you want and removing what you don't.

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Originally Posted by Menriq

No, but if it's not flagged as a bug, and it's been around for this long with absolutely zero comment from SE, it would indicate that at the least it's working as intended as of now.

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Just a heads up, similar to what Icsah said- it has indeed been flagged as “insufficient information”, which tells me they don’t see how it is a bug aka working as intended.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Just a heads up, similar to what Icsah said- it has indeed been flagged as “insufficient information”, which tells me they don’t see how it is a bug aka working as intended.

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I think it means there's not enough info, but it doesn't say what additional info they would need?

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

I think it means there's not enough info, but it doesn't say what additional info they would need?

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More likely “we don’t see what the ticket is about as everything seems to be working the way it is intended”. Not “please provide more information because you don’t like the outcome”. There’s no bug to report

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

I think it means there's not enough info, but it doesn't say what additional info they would need?

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That’s my point, this response feels like “ok, we see… so what is the bug?” Because just reading her report it should be obvious what the bug is from her point of view.

They can’t be waiting for like..computer stats or whatever.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

That’s my point, this response feels like “ok, we see… so what is the bug?” Because just reading her report it should be obvious what the bug is from her point of view.

They can’t be waiting for like..computer stats or whatever.

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Its not a bug, it players exploiting the que system. Reporting that CT and LOTA appear to frequently means nothing since the devs have gotten feedback about it since HW. Every expansion this comes up. Its kinda funny.
(They won't add a separate CT and LOTA que because they don't want roulette bloat and they don't want to limit new player access to getting those done since they are MSQ. And yes, they have already made adjustments to how often CT and LOTA appear.)

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Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

Its not a bug, it players exploiting the que system. Reporting that CT and LOTA appear to frequently means nothing since the devs have gotten feedback about it since HW. Every expansion this comes up. Its kinda funny.
(They won't add a separate CT and LOTA que because they don't want roulette bloat and they don't want to limit new player access to getting those done since they are MSQ. And yes, they have already made adjustments to how often CT and LOTA appear.)

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It sounds like you haven’t been following the entire thread. That is literally what we have been debating.

Here is her bug report.

My post was a courtesy to them to update/resubmit.

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Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

Its not a bug, it players exploiting the que system. Reporting that CT and LOTA appear to frequently means nothing since the devs have gotten feedback about it since HW. Every expansion this comes up. Its kinda funny.
(They won't add a separate CT and LOTA que because they don't want roulette bloat and they don't want to limit new player access to getting those done since they are MSQ. And yes, they have already made adjustments to how often CT and LOTA appear.)

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Again that is why I hold my stance that this complaint is rather petty over all.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

It sounds like you haven’t been following the entire thread. That is literally what we have been debating.

Here is her bug report.

My post was a courtesy to them to update/resubmit.

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No, I read from page 32. So if you told someone to update/resubmit a bug report for something that isn't a bug, what does that have to do with what I posted?

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Again that is why I hold my stance that this complaint is rather petty over all.

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Its been a complaint about the alliance roulette since HW. I don't think that qualifies as petty.

There was a lot going on pre page 32.

I’ll give you the short version to catch you up:

1) I talk about cheesing and defend doing it.
2) Menriq submitted a big report
3) the bug report is flagged “insufficient information”
4) I let her know; it’s either not a bug or she can try to rework her original report to clarify.

An exploit if unintended, is a bug, which she believes.

As I see it, it is working as intended. I disagree with it being a bug personally , but I want to give her a chance to seek answers.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

There was a lot going on pre page 32.

I’ll give you the short version to catch you up:

1) I talk about cheesing and defend doing it.
2) Menriq submitted a big report
3) the bug report is flagged “insufficient information”
4) I let her know; it’s either not a bug or she can try to rework her original report to clarify.

An exploit if unintended, is a bug. As I see it, it is working as intended.

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I still don't see what that has to do with what I posted. I'm not arguing a point because there is no debate of whether its a bug or players exploiting, all I said was that its not a bug its players exploiting the que system which has been iterated several times through the whole thread. So to address your points I guess:
1) Thats your opinion and you are entitled to do it, just as others are allowed to complain about it if they get a constant chain of CT and LOTA without the new player bonus.
2) Its not a bug.
3) Its flagged as insufficient information because its not a bug. So what they are asking for is more information as to if ilvl isn't being correctly accounted for, not that players are stipping gear and then reequipping it when they get into LOTA or CT.
4) Its not a bug.

An exploit is a kind of bug…a mistake or oversight in the program.

That has largely been the entire point of this thread. Whether it is even considered an exploit by the devs.

Your very first post to me was “it’s not a bug, it’s an exploit”, when an exploit is a kind of bug. That’s what my posts are addressing.

My confusion is: if a player is so endgame and their time so valuable that they absolutely must cheese their ilvl to get a 12 min CT vs 20 min something else... then why are they even bothering with those lowbie roulettes at all in the first place? The exp and gil really isn't good enough to justify exploiting, and better tomes can be had elsewhere. Faster tomes and materia clusters can be had in Hunts by a longshot.

I like doing Alliance roulette on my Lv 90 healer (you'll see me in there in appropriately melded i580+ gear) because it's a nice way to practice group healing without too much pressure from mechanics. If my time was so valuable that I needed to hurry up and get to "eLiT3 H4rDc0RE enDgaYmeR" stuff that I needed to cheese it to ruin others' time, then I had no business being in there in the first place.

It seems more like a case of "I'm a spoiled brat and do what I want at the expense of others" more than "I really need this to be 12 minutes instead of 20 because I have super duper special elite gamer stuff much more important to get to" lol

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Originally Posted by kaynide

An exploit is a kind of bug…a mistake or oversight in the program.

That has largely been the entire point of this thread. Whether it is even considered an exploit by the devs.

Your very first post to me was “it’s not a bug, it’s an exploit”, when an exploit is a kind of bug. That’s what my posts are addressing.

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There is no technical problem with the duty finder and alliance roulettes, it is player actions exploiting ilvl requirement to be able to que into CT and LOTA by removing gear and then queuing limiting thier duty registration to the lowest available alliance raid based on thier applied lowest ilvl. And then reequipping gear when they get into CT or LOTA. That is not a bug, it is an exploit.

Iirc the devs consider it an exploit. But I don't remember exactly what he devs stated years ago on the matter.

The point of my ticket was to have someone at SE actually confirm it is not a bug since they have to review the ticket to move it to the right category. They marked it as insufficient information, but ironically, don't provide sufficient information as to what else they are looking for to give them clarity.

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Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

Its not a bug, it players exploiting the que system. Reporting that CT and LOTA appear to frequently means nothing since the devs have gotten feedback about it since HW. Every expansion this comes up. Its kinda funny.
(They won't add a separate CT and LOTA que because they don't want roulette bloat and they don't want to limit new player access to getting those done since they are MSQ. And yes, they have already made adjustments to how often CT and LOTA appear.)

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You say this is an exploit, but also say it's been around since HW. Now as a software developer, I can tell you that if I have something in my code that is an exploit, I'm generally not going to wait 5+ years to fix it. It's either a non-issue, or it's something I'm going to fix pretty quickly. It would be one thing if this just happened with EW, but since this "exploit" has been around longer than it hasn't been, I think a strong argument can be made that SE doesn't consider it an issue.