Primal drop system, still no changes?!

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Originally Posted by Quesse

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5.../yoshimage.jpg

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Why would you do that to my image!? ;______;

- Kurokikaze

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Originally Posted by Elexia

They'd honestly have to add many more rewards, because there's very little reason to help others after you get your guaranteed drop after x amount of time. Which is why repeating in their other MMO had benefits back in the day, even if it was a quick 60k+ a day down the road, chances are you were helping newer players get their sought after items in the process.

Since honestly so far the only drops on Primals are the weapon and dark matter (in terms of tangible rewards.)

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That's easily fixed, if you can exchange the totems you got for something else, like company seals. In case you have 7-7 weapons. That would keep players killing it and whoever newbie needs the weapons.

Good news, now it doesn't seem like we will be getting ifrit and moogle weapons for 1 totem at 2.0 release. Keep them all at 10 SE, nothing more and nothing less.

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Originally Posted by Camate

the number of Inferno Totems will not be reduced and will remain at the cost of 10 each weapon.

We apologize for the change and appreciate your understanding.

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Appreciate this!
http://www.gilgarciatherapist.com/ya...n.30175626.jpg

We should probably just boycott these fights, when almost no player will do them anymore because of the stupid drop system, maybe they'll realize something is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

We should probably just boycott these fights, when almost no player will do them anymore because of the stupid drop system, maybe they'll realize something is wrong.

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Already have although that was cos I had all the weapons I needed 3/7 but with 5 totems to exchange for my bow in 1.22. However since this to hell with going back to Ifrit I'll just get a sodding AF bow.

The fight isn't fun anymore SE I can do it on autopilot and it's always war, 2xwhm, 5x thau. I don't have anymore f***s to give about Ifrit I'm sorry.

EDIT; I think the most annoying aspect is there's so many different options open to them to make this fight less stupid.

1) They could make totems 100% and increase cost of weapons to 20 (140 fights for a full set is enough for god's sake).

2) They could make dupes passable.

3) They could make it so dupes just don't god damn happen. (So many cudgels -.-)

And this is just 3 options out of many more and yeah as Noir stated there's a hundred options for giving this fight some relevance post 7/7 and keeping Ifrit shouts going besides TERRIBLE drop systems. Ultimately that's what this is, it's nothing to do with balance it's just drawing out a piece of content they made because as it stands there isn't a lot.

/end rant

I have gotten 2 ifrit weapons, 3 totems 1 mog weapon and a nut charm. and I have done Ifrit 10 times, and Mog 4 times. With a good group the fights last 10min and 15min respectively. I understand the frustration but I have a hard time believing that people have gone a 100 fights and seen nothing... Now duplicates is annoying. As I type this I am going into my 11th ifrit run and the last fight someone got another ifrit claw. But maybe my groups just lucky. Out of 5 runs we have done now there have been a total of 4 weapons dropped to different people.

Lol time to hunt down the 25 people that liked that post

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Originally Posted by Elexia

They'd honestly have to add many more rewards, because there's very little reason to help others after you get your guaranteed drop after x amount of time. Which is why repeating in their other MMO had benefits back in the day, even if it was a quick 60k+ a day down the road, chances are you were helping newer players get their sought after items in the process.

Since honestly so far the only drops on Primals are the weapon and dark matter (in terms of tangible rewards.)

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Not something many people want to hear, but Content Finder will help alleviate this. They'll also be adding a hard mode to ifrit & new items anyway.

I've been 7/7 for a long time & I've already gotten a few crafts from 45~ to 50 just from helping alone. Just another small reason to help people.

Instead of more drops, it might be better to add some kind of reputation/points to content so people can farm them (esp. if they're linked to Free Company's in some way).

So yeah, the other day I was thinking of a formula about the drops and I came in conclusion of this:

If you don't have all DoW and DoM level 50 the system will do this:
1 - Looks at your data to see what is the lowest level
2 - Decides that the lowest level is! Gladiator 22.
3 - Decides on a percentage of the drop by 100% of total level. That is 44%.
4 - From those 44% the system divides by 2 (The amount of 50's you have). Making the actual a 0.22%
5 - For each wipe the percentage is increases by 1%.
6 - After 10 wipes you leave the party and the next day is back to 0.22%
7 - After a successful run within the 10min, your chances are 1% for each minute left, making a total of 25.22%.
8 - Each /dance, /pose, /psych, /whatever... drops the rate to 0% with a 50% divided by 2 (number of 50s) to drop a totem instead of weapon.
9 - After 20 runs of success you get your first weapon, and guess what?! It's a Blade. Check number 1.
10 - After more 10 runs another weapon drops, guess what?! a Blade.
11 - After more 10 runs another weapon drops, guess what?! a Blade.
12 - The reason why the system gives you 3 blades is because, you have 2 retainers and your inventory. If you don't put the blade on those inventories he will just keep spamming Blades.
13 - After the 3 Blades dropped and you get on your 60 successful run, the system decides that since you have a 50! I will give you this THM Weapon, so he gives you one.
14 - After more 20 runs he decides to give you 1 totem every 5 runs.
15 - When you reach the total amount of 5 stacks of DM he gives you another totem.
16 - Repeat with another low Class.
17 - Guess what?! Axe Dropped, my MRD is level 23.
18 - And then the story continues.
19 - If you are a Lucky Bastardo! You get the weapon you want in the first run, and the following 3 you get more 3 different weapons. True story! (19 only works on Moogle)

If you have all DoW and DoM level 50 the system will do this:
1 - See how much time you spend on a 50.
2 - He decides that you are the tank so! He will give you the Axe last and Blade last.
3 - The first weapon too be given is of a class that you don't use like... THM or WHM or MNK.
4 - You cry deeply and the chances drop to 0.0002%
5 - The rest is unknown.

Note: I just made this for pure fun, but the first part is actually true! Is what happened to me.

It's going to get interesting when we find out the only way to get the new materia is from breaking down ifrit or moogle weapons. lol

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Originally Posted by Mooga

So yeah, the other day I was thinking of a formula about the drops and I came in conclusion of this:

If you don't have all DoW and DoM level 50 the system will do this:
1 - Looks at your data to see what is the lowest level
2 - Decides that the lowest level is! Gladiator 22.
3 - Decides on a percentage of the drop by 100% of total level. That is 44%.
4 - From those 44% the system divides by 2 (The amount of 50's you have). Making the actual a 0.22%
5 - For each wipe the percentage is increases by 1%.
6 - After 10 wipes you leave the party and the next day is back to 0.22%
7 - After a successful run within the 10min, your chances are 1% for each minute left, making a total of 25.22%.
8 - Each /dance, /pose, /psych, /whatever... drops the rate to 0% with a 50% divided by 2 (number of 50s) to drop a totem instead of weapon.
9 - After 20 runs of success you get your first weapon, and guess what?! It's a Blade. Check number 1.
10 - After more 10 runs another weapon drops, guess what?! a Blade.
11 - After more 10 runs another weapon drops, guess what?! a Blade.
12 - The reason why the system gives you 3 blades is because, you have 2 retainers and your inventory. If you don't put the blade on those inventories he will just keep spamming Blades.
13 - After the 3 Blades dropped and you get on your 60 successful run, the system decides that since you have a 50! I will give you this THM Weapon, so he gives you one.
14 - After more 20 runs he decides to give you 1 totem every 5 runs.
15 - When you reach the total amount of 5 stacks of DM he gives you another totem.
16 - Repeat with another low Class.
17 - Guess what?! Axe Dropped, my MRD is level 23.
18 - And then the story continues.
19 - If you are a Lucky Bastardo! You get the weapon you want in the first run, and the following 3 you get more 3 different weapons. True story! (19 only works on Moogle)

If you have all DoW and DoM level 50 the system will do this:
1 - See how much time you spend on a 50.
2 - He decides that you are the tank so! He will give you the Axe last and Blade last.
3 - The first weapon too be given is of a class that you don't use like... THM or WHM or MNK.
4 - You cry deeply and the chances drop to 0.0002%
5 - The rest is unknown.

Note: I just made this for pure fun, but the first part is actually true! Is what happened to me.

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while I have been with a person who never done before, in his first win, he got Ifrit bow, and after that his second win, he got harpoon, and he said "my life is complete!" coz his only main class at that moment is Lancer...


I have no clue on this....

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Originally Posted by Enma

Hundreds of people pointed out that Primal drop system is broken, disheartening and annoying. And with 1.21 patch nothing has changed... Today I made 3 runs of Moogle with a new friend who never cleared it, he dropped 2 weapons! I'm still stucked a 1 only weapon after 60+ runs... I'm losing hopes about Primal fights, and don't feel excited at all about Garuda's fight incoming. These things ruin the game experience of players. Please check it! :(

P.S.
People prefer to complain about Anima...

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i dont see a problem with it. drops are not even that bad lol. at least in this game they give you totems for ifrit and nuts for moogle. try playing ffxi's void watch when you do 100+ runs and still not get 1 thing you wanted. and they dont even give you anything to build towards the armor you want like the totems/nuts. Just another person crying about something that isn't that big a deal.

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Originally Posted by Pim-ptarutaruOdin

i dont see a problem with it. drops are not even that bad lol. at least in this game they give you totems for ifrit and nuts for moogle. try playing ffxi's void watch when you do 100+ runs and still not get 1 thing you wanted. and they dont even give you anything to build towards the armor you want like the totems/nuts. Just another person crying about something that isn't that big a deal.

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one shitty system is no excuse for another

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Originally Posted by Deltara

It's going to get interesting when we find out the only way to get the new materia is from breaking down ifrit or moogle weapons. lol

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But of course. And then that materia is useless by the next patch afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Aion

while I have been with a person who never done before, in his first win, he got Ifrit bow, and after that his second win, he got harpoon, and he said "my life is complete!" coz his only main class at that moment is Lancer...


I have no clue on this....

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The answer is that the Random Number Goddess is fickle. Maybe she prefers Lalafelle while hating on the cat people?

i think is is both stupid and good...in a way.

The downside now is i stopped doing ifrit runs cuz i still havent gotten shit from Ifrit.
No totems, no weapons...just crap. (using my main account ofc)

I think SE really REALLY need to come up with something more appealing...
like maybe increase droprate of the freakin totems atleast.
idc if its 1-5% just let me get something "worthwhile" after 10 fights or more.

It's no wonder people arent appealed to do the fight, it becomes a drag too quick.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Previously we made an announcement mentioning that in patch 1.22 we would adjust the exchange rate for items collected from primal battles. As the development team was making adjustments, after giving thorough consideration for balance and other aspects, they have decided to reduce the number of Kupo Nut Charms to 10; however, the number of Inferno Totems will not be reduced and will remain at the cost of 10 each weapon.

We apologize for the change and appreciate your understanding.

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It's like the Devs like poking us with sticks...

Camate, I know you're just the messenger, so please take this message back:

Please, for the love of all that is holy, allow us to pass/lot weapons from or loot list just like we can in the dungeons/EVERY OTHER NM. Also, get rid of tokens, they are just a cumbersome un-needed part of the battle.

As I have said before, we can't beat a Primal solo therefore, the reward shouldn't be rare/ex/non-tradable. Let us pass a Moogle Axe to our LS mate who is an awesome Warrior, or give a mercy Ifrit's Lance to the poor Dragoon that has been on 50+ runs with no luck...

As to drop rates: I think it is reasonable for a party who is winning at 90%+ of their battles with a primal to see 1 weapon drop ever 4-5 fights. Keep in mind, we have to collect tapers/keystones...tele to grid to turn in quests (which burns anima btw) and wait 15 mins each clear before we can enter. So 4-5 fights even with 10 min clears=2-2.5 hours a night. So basically, a party of 8 would probably see 1-2 weapons drop a night. It would still take a static of 8 people, on average, just over a month playing 2.5 hours every night to get 7/7 on ONE primal set. There will soon be THREE primals to beat/clear/farm. Seriously, how much longer do we have to play for a wand? (which btw, while we're complaining, Mage primal weapons are 'meh' at best).

Also, this is NOT the way to keep costumers playing your game.

Well that's great..... I've been passing my totems to other people in order to get them to 5 so that they could finally get an Ifrit weapon and now SE go back on their announcement ><

/Goes back to farming a billion more tapers :(

i like Kinseykinz's idea alot. <3

I don't understand why people are moaning about the drop rate I have had enough ifrit wins to get my Leatherworker from 40 to 48 and still don't have all the weapons.
They would be meaningless if they were easy to get but I do agree in lowering the kupo nuts to 10 as the fight is a million years longer than ifrit (beat ifrit in 6 mins) (beat moogle in 35mins lol)

Stupid decision and amateur handling of the announcement. Come on SE you can do better than this. Just let us pass weapons :\

I dunno, it seems to me that all this drop rate crap harkens back to the days of SNES Final Fantasys, where the way to add game play time was to make players grind exp.

Look, I'm all for doing Ifrit. Many times. But over 100 times and still only 1 weapon and 8 totems to show for it sucks. I like playing this game, but why do I have to do the same memorized fight so much? It's tedious!

Phantasy Star Online managed to thrive with only 4 levels (which were randomized) and be new and exciting each run. Can't we learn anything from that? Randomize dungeons so people can't memorize speed run them, or change Ifrit's dash pattern. Maybe if you mix up the battles you can make it exciting each time, and then justify decreasing the weapon exchange rates.

(OH. And if you DO mix up the battles, fix the latency issue. Nothing sucks worse than being killed by an attack you evaded on your screen only to find out you weren't in a designated "safe spot")

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Originally Posted by Nohmaan

I dunno, it seems to me that all this drop rate crap harkens back to the days of SNES Final Fantasys, where the way to add game play time was to make players grind exp.

Look, I'm all for doing Ifrit. Many times. But over 100 times and still only 1 weapon and 8 totems to show for it sucks. I like playing this game, but why do I have to do the same memorized fight so much? It's tedious!

Phantasy Star Online managed to thrive with only 4 levels (which were randomized) and be new and exciting each run. Can't we learn anything from that? Randomize dungeons so people can't memorize speed run them, or change Ifrit's dash pattern. Maybe if you mix up the battles you can make it exciting each time, and then justify decreasing the weapon exchange rates.

(OH. And if you DO mix up the battles, fix the latency issue. Nothing sucks worse than being killed by an attack you evaded on your screen only to find out you weren't in a designated "safe spot")

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This. The only challenge left in your fight SE is the god damn latency. Stop pretending it's worth spamming anymore than we already have.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

This doesn't change the fact that people still stack certain classes for the Ifrit fight (THM) so a lot of people get left out can't do the fight anyway because people rather shout in town for 4 hours for 5 THM then get other classes.

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i've seen every type of job go into ifrit <.< and i've seen all kinds of combos of jobs win it. Yes thm/blm burn is the most easy way to do it. But others can do it np. If your having that much trouble geting party invite, how about you make the party instead not that hard.

Thaumaturge moogle weapon isn't even worth that effort.

Ifrit's ok, but don't most black mages run around with a lightning brand?

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Originally Posted by Pim-ptarutaruOdin

i've seen every type of job go into ifrit <.< and i've seen all kinds of combos of jobs win it. Yes thm/blm burn is the most easy way to do it. But others can do it np. If your having that much trouble geting party invite, how about you make the party instead not that hard.

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Unfortunately unless you have an LS of people willing to do that it won't go over well. Random groups/pickups are going to see the party setup and be all "haha no". I don't see it as entirely a community issue either, range is always rewarded by SE in that every mob and its dog spams aoe crap and people are just unwilling to heal front-line jobs other than tanks especially when thau is so easy to do OP damage on.

EDIT; Just because it's bound to happen... I'm saying thau is easy to do big damage with I'm not asking for your various parses where your mnk or drg rocks house. Mnk is my favourite job and I know the damage is good but that's not what this is about x.x

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Thaumaturge moogle weapon isn't even worth that effort.

Ifrit's ok, but don't most black mages run around with a lightning brand?

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Depends what you are doing the moogle wep is good for stuff that will resist you pretty hard, and it also lets you stack int more easily, instead of having to resort to dbl melds.

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

http://daviddemar.files.wordpress.co...e1-291x300.png

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i lol'd

and indeed agree with this sentiment

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Originally Posted by Camate

Previously we made an announcement mentioning that in patch 1.22 we would adjust the exchange rate for items collected from primal battles. As the development team was making adjustments, after giving thorough consideration for balance and other aspects, they have decided to reduce the number of Kupo Nut Charms to 10; however, the number of Inferno Totems will not be reduced and will remain at the cost of 10 each weapon.

We apologize for the change and appreciate your understanding.

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http://www.deathvalleymag.com/wp-con...n-the-Nads.jpg

I had 5 totems.....:(

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Originally Posted by Camate

Previously we made an announcement mentioning that in patch 1.22 we would adjust the exchange rate for items collected from primal battles. As the development team was making adjustments, after giving thorough consideration for balance and other aspects, they have decided to reduce the number of Kupo Nut Charms to 10; however, the number of Inferno Totems will not be reduced and will remain at the cost of 10 each weapon.

We apologize for the change and appreciate your understanding.

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In this case... I'm done with Ifrit fights. I'll continue to enjoy my mog fights, which are easier. :D

We have still yet to hear any word on making weapons passable via loot list!

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Originally Posted by Camate

after giving thorough consideration for balance and other aspects~

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this is not an explanation.

i fail to see what balance would be effected other than NOT making people do the same fight hundreds of times..

Heck, one of my good friends is sitting at over 160 wins (talking Ifrit only for this post), zero weapons, and 4 totems the last time we talked about it over a month ago. I'm somewhere in the 20s (do it so rarely that I lost track) with 4 totems so far. But really...160 and zero?

This woman is not a complainer. She usually logs on, solos a bit or joins random LS parties or helps people out to have fun, and no matter how things are going, she takes it in stride. She'll give you a one liner like "Yeah, X wins and still no weapons" if someone else brings it up, but you can tell it bothers her. Every action can have unintended consequences, and I don't imply that SE intends to crush anyone's spirit in their game supposed to be enjoyed by all, but that's what's happening in this one extreme case at least.

Why have a system that even allows that type of extreme case? That's what makes me mad. You want people it grind it out, fine...give us a lower drop rate and make these things lootable. This non-lootable drop system is easily the worst idea implemented since the game's launch. I commend SE on most of their updates, but I cannot believe this primal drop system persists. The totem drops are irrelevant...many of that player's friends have attempted to help at times, and that's obviously gotten nowhere.

Oy, now imagine yourself in her shoes after hearing the totem price will soon be 5 instead of 10, so you will only be 1totem away from a weapon FINALLY.

Oh...nevermind.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

this is not an explanation.

i fail to see what balance would be effected other than NOT making people do the same fight hundreds of times..

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Actually it's more of a case of wether the Ifrit weapons are weaker than the Moogle weapons. Are they a vertical progression or a horizontal progression? If they are all the same in overall power just in different manners, then both should have the same chance of acquisition and token cost.

Which token cost is better, 5 for 10? That, I don't comment on.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

They'd honestly have to add many more rewards, because there's very little reason to help others after you get your guaranteed drop after x amount of time. Which is why repeating in their other MMO had benefits back in the day, even if it was a quick 60k+ a day down the road, chances are you were helping newer players get their sought after items in the process.

Since honestly so far the only drops on Primals are the weapon and dark matter (in terms of tangible rewards.)

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You don't need any reason to help others than to help, that's why its called help.

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Originally Posted by Endless

I have gotten 2 ifrit weapons, 3 totems 1 mog weapon and a nut charm. and I have done Ifrit 10 times, and Mog 4 times. With a good group the fights last 10min and 15min respectively. I understand the frustration but I have a hard time believing that people have gone a 100 fights and seen nothing... Now duplicates is annoying. As I type this I am going into my 11th ifrit run and the last fight someone got another ifrit claw. But maybe my groups just lucky. Out of 5 runs we have done now there have been a total of 4 weapons dropped to different people.

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Yea the internet is full of such stories where people don't understand because "it didn't happen to them", congratulations on your lucky streak, hopefully it will run out soon so you can appreciate what the rest of us are saying.

40 pages, 400 posts and a number even bigger of people, who didn't post here, dislike the Primal drop system AND announced changes.
WHY Yoshi-P and Dev team still don't want to think about somenthing really working?!
I don't give solutions, I wanted just give my own feedback about the system, and like me, many other people did the same.
Please Yoshi hear our voices. :(

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Originally Posted by Wevlum

...are you...ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?!

http://i.imgur.com/ZaTjc.gif

Sorry Camate but there's no understanding to be appreciated here.

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This might just be the best post in the OFs history. Not that THAT is saying much.

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Originally Posted by Enma

40 pages, 400 posts and a number even bigger of people, who didn't post here, dislike the Primal drop system AND announced changes.
WHY Yoshi-P and Dev team still don't want to think about somenthing really working?!
I don't give solutions, I wanted just give my own feedback about the system, and like me, many other people did the same.
Please Yoshi hear our voices. :(

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It took my thread 68 pages, and 613 responses before I finally got some good feeback.

Keep up the fight sir, consistency is paramount.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Previously we made an announcement mentioning that in patch 1.22 we would adjust the exchange rate for items collected from primal battles. As the development team was making adjustments, after giving thorough consideration for balance and other aspects, they have decided to reduce the number of Kupo Nut Charms to 10; however, the number of Inferno Totems will not be reduced and will remain at the cost of 10 each weapon.

We apologize for the change and appreciate your understanding.

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Please reconsider.