Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I suppose all we can hope for is SE don't gate the second expansion (and any future expansions) behind Heavensward.

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This will depend on the story/lore.

Not sure if I agree with OP. by the time you hit 50 you should be well into the story. now, if you have 50's on different toons (not sure why but to each his/her own) I could see the argument for maybe allowing if the account has a 50 and completed the MSQ then maybe allow them to enter.. but over all I think you should go thru the MSQ , or up to the lore to gain access into HW. just my .02

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

i have to wonder why people keep using new players as a point of reference for the expansion. as they are new players, the entire game is new to them.
the only thing people could say is "i want to play x job, but cant because its in the expansion area".

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Short answer people be lazy.

Need level 50 job to finish 2.0 story.
Wants to play new job.
Can't be new job till 2.0 story done.
They want to use the 2.0 story to level the new job.
There by they using the new player excuse because they want to level the new jobs with the 2.0 story.

Oh and people who just craft and gather think some how since they pay a sub that they have a right to the new areas with out working for them.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I suppose all we can hope for is SE don't gate the second expansion (and any future expansions) behind Heavensward.

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If SE sticks with how they handle expansions, which they have thus far, i don't think the majority of future expansion's content will be quest-locked. Though some things always will be dependent on having an applicable expansion registered and active to a FFXIV client: new jobs, new gameplay systems(think Assault, Salvage, Einherjar, etc.), and the like.

Well, so far Square's been off-book with XIV. Every one of XI's expansions was a self-contained story though Zilart and Promathia had a little interconnectivity. Heavensward is the first time I've heard of an expansion continuing a story. Further, the version updates have been more than just new content, many have had fixes and system changes too. XI's version updates have largely only been new content and features.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Heavensward is the first time I've heard of an expansion continuing a story.

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Short term memory, it seems. ZM-1 immediately follows Vanilla XI's mission 5-2

"Must kill Shadow Lord to access Zilart missions, and eventually Sky."

@OP in order to have grabbed a craft, a player has to have started off the game as one of he DoW/DoM classes and leveled that to 10. So the crafter/s you are talking about has already got at least one of those.
There are 285 main scenario quests. I have three characters who have all now completed the storyline and are champing at the bit, shivering in the cold at the gate of Ishgard, shooting craps with Marcelain and his knights.

The last character I leveled took a leisurely 10 days to do because I also was gearing up the other two, so had to do the daily roulettes and weekly twice every day. Now I'll be doing them all three times hehe

Why did I choose to have three characters? Because I love the freaking story! Every time I hit a cutscene I find something I'd missed before!

My point is, it's not hard and well worth it! [although SE could stand to dump about 30-40 of those quests because they are totally meaningless 'fetch and carry' quests]

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Originally Posted by Yuri_Hyuga

Please Allow 50's to Enter Ishgard w/o having completed MSQ

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"Please allow me into endgame areas without working to get there."

"Please allow me to go to Omega Ruins in FFX 5 minutes after I start the game"

"Please give me 47373 handouts like WoW without having to earn them."

Yeah, I think this is going to fall on deaf ears. No game in history has allowed you to jump right into the last areas of the storyline right after you log in. And with good reason.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Short term memory, it seems. ZM-1 immediately follows Vanilla XI's mission 5-2

"Must kill Shadow Lord to access Zilart missions, and eventually Sky."

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To be fair, 5-2 is more akin to our Demon Fight than an actual segue into Zilart. The nation stories continued past 5-2 without needing you to have started Zilart, whereas the main story leads here leads straight into Heavensward with no branches leading off on their own tangent.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Oh yes, because allowing newer players the chance to try out some of the content the new expansions pack brings is so extreme.
SE should really hang a sign on Heavensward saying "NO NEWBS ALLOWED".

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Dunno about you, but I'd rather not have a brand new level 1 player running Dusk Vigil with me, but maybe I'm harsh. Who knows?

Consider for a moment that locking new areas and jobs behind MSQ also means that there will naturally be fewer people crowding up the new areas at launch. There will already be a ton of us there, do you really want hundreds of Lannisters and Targaryens, who fate grinded to 50 without a single dungeon or job quest, crowding up the place trying to unlock their dragon mounts?

I'm sure at some point they will remove the MSQ requirement from the 3.0 zones to aid new players in accessing relevant content. But that's the kind of change that will occur around 4.0 or 5.0. For now the MSQ is in place to benefit US... the players sitting at level 50 who are hungry for more content.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Well, so far Square's been off-book with XIV. Every one of XI's expansions was a self-contained story though Zilart and Promathia had a little interconnectivity. Heavensward is the first time I've heard of an expansion continuing a story. Further, the version updates have been more than just new content, many have had fixes and system changes too. XI's version updates have largely only been new content and features.

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Zilart DID require you to beat the Shadow Lord to start, at which point the MSQ branched into another 5 ranks of your home nation and the Zilart missions.
CoP wasn't directly connected but involved Delkfutt's Tower, which you have to visit several times during the main and RoZ missions.
A LOT of the CoP zones were gated behind the story as well, and about half the RoZ zones were gated behind the Kazham airship pass quest, with the other half bucking the common trend for expansions before and since by tacking on new zones all over the place. It got confusing.

But seriously, it takes less than a week for a new player to get through the 2.0 main scenario, grind some tomes (900 in a week now), gear up, and tackle the rest.

If that's too much work, go play a non-MMO.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Short term memory, it seems. ZM-1 immediately follows Vanilla XI's mission 5-2

"Must kill Shadow Lord to access Zilart missions, and eventually Sky."

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Yeah, could have sworn Zilart was a continuation. Of course it also mainly existed on the already established zones, did it not? I know they brought Kazham and the extra endgame zones, but I forget how much Kazham was actually connected to the story. Every expansion thereafter brought completely new zones with a story encased within them almost entirely.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Yeah, could have sworn Zilart was a continuation. Of course it also mainly existed on the already established zones, did it not? I know they brought Kazham and the extra endgame zones, but I forget how much Kazham was actually connected to the story. Every expansion thereafter brought completely new zones with a story encased within them almost entirely.

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The only reason you consider the zones established, is because FFXI vanilla was bundled with RotZ on its US release. Vanilla XI was being played (minus zilart zones, with a lvl 50 cap) in Japan for two years before then.

Here is what the expansion added:

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Towns
Kazham
Norg
Rabao

Overworld
Eastern Altepa Desert
Western Altepa Desert
Yhoator Jungle
Yuhtunga Jungle

Dungeons
The Boyahda Tree
Cape Teriggan
Dynamis - Bastok
Dynamis - San d'Oria
Dynamis - Windurst
Gustav Tunnel
Ifrit's Cauldron
Korroloka Tunnel
Ru'Aun Gardens
Sea Serpent Grotto
The Shrine of Ru'Avitau
Ve'Lugannon Palace

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Please do not forget that we didn't reach any conclusion to the 2.X MSQ series, and that heavensward is a continuation of the story of the 2.X series. Therefore it would make no sens for a new player to bypass the 2.X MSQ. Personally I'd rather have had SE conclude the the 2.X MSQ before the expansion, then start from scratch a new story in the xpac.

We re not in WoW where the story is world driven, and tied to the history of a server rather than to the history of any given character (like in FFXIV).

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

The only reason you consider the zones established, is because FFXI vanilla was bundled with RotZ on its US release. Vanilla XI was being played (minus zilart zones, with a lvl 50 cap) in Japan for two years before then.

Here is what the expansion added:

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Exactly, tons of ppl forget FFXI existed for a good amount of time before it was released in NA and other parts west. RotZ added a ton of content and was a direct continuation. CoP was stand alone with some thematic ties to FFXI base and RotZ. Full standalone expantions didn't start for FFXI until ToAU was released, a good 4 years into development.

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Originally Posted by Hieral

But seriously, it takes less than a week for a new player to get through the 2.0 main scenario, grind some tomes (900 in a week now), gear up, and tackle the rest.

If that's too much work, go play a non-MMO.

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Unless a person lives in their mom's basement and has no rl obligations they are not going to complete the msq in less than a week.

That would beat the point of us going to Ishargd in the 1st place!! Remember that the gates of Isghard was not open for all, we were only allowed there because of Aymeric's and Haurchefants help. Also we never had any reason to go to Ishgard in the 1st place until we were driven out.

There is also the fact that these areas will be more difficult. If they let everyone skip straight to heavenward areas without finishing story and gearing up there would be a ton of crying about how the heavenward areas are too hard.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

Unless a person lives in their mom's basement and has no rl obligations they are not going to complete the msq in less than a week.

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I stated back a ways in this thread that brand new players in my FC have done the whole of 2.0~3.0 ready in just under about an average of 2 weeks. I stick by that because i saw them do it while still going to work, dealing with family and friends, and doing everything else adults do on a regular basis.

While i will say doing it in under a week would require more effort, i could see it being done-especially if during the weekend of that week the player binged played the game. The toughest thing, actually the only tough thing about the MQ is just staying focused while the denizens of Eorzea continually mistake you for their personal manservant. If you can keep at it, you can fly through it, ques are only on the long side for a couple of instances.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

Take it from me, someone that agrees with the content being locked behind the story: your argument of the MSQ being fast to complete is just plain incorrect.

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When you consider that someone having to complete MSQ up til 2.55 in order to access Ishgard does NOT have to wait months between patch cycles like many of us did, then yes, it is pretty fast. It's still an investment of time, yes. But no full-stops between patches.

It's a story driven game. . .do the story or go play a game more suited to the gameplay you are searching for.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

Consider for a moment that locking new areas and jobs behind MSQ also means that there will naturally be fewer people crowding up the new areas at launch. There will already be a ton of us there, do you really want hundreds of Lannisters and Targaryens, who fate grinded to 50 without a single dungeon or job quest, crowding up the place trying to unlock their dragon mounts?

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This made me LOL

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Originally Posted by Spiritreaver1217

I stated back a ways in this thread that brand new players in my FC have done the whole of 2.0~3.0 ready in just under about an average of 2 weeks.

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An average of 2 weeks is believable but less than a week isn't going to happen with an average or even an above average player.
Length time so do the msq isn't the issue in this post. It's about the people who have specifically played the game from a crafters perspective (which has been supported and encouraged by SE) who do not have any level 50 battle classes are not allowed to play the expansion.

Personally I think it's another misstep in a long history of missteps. A new expansion is an opportunity to put everyone on a more-or-less level playing field. Welcome new\returning players into the game and all tackle new content together. That won't happen with this game because so much stuff is gated behind old events. I'm not sure if SE just is trying to control the population by making unpopular decisions or if they really believe that new players (and crafters, for that matter) should be gated from new content they they paid for, but it's a questionable position to take.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

specifically played the game from a crafters perspective (which has been supported and encouraged by SE) who do not have any level 50 battle classes are not allowed to play the expansion.

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suck to be them, it only take a few days and 6h MSQ, they can begin now

It's IS an equalizer. . . for the players that hit 50, followed the MAIN scenario, but went different ways.

The guy who made a fortune on the MB? See you at level 51.
The guy who gathers and gardens daily then logs out? See you at level 51.
The girl who cleared Final Coil? See you at level 51.
The people that mainly come to socialize with friends? See you at level 51.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

It's about the people who have specifically played the game from a crafters perspective (which has been supported and encouraged by SE) who do not have any level 50 battle classes are not allowed to play the expansion.

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They are most certainly allowed to play the expansion. Nothing prevents them from leveling a DoW/M and completing the MSQ other than themselves. It isn't that they are incapable of accessing HW areas, they are unwilling.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

It's about the people who have specifically played the game from a crafters perspective (which has been supported and encouraged by SE) who do not have any level 50 battle classes are not allowed to play the expansion.

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It's been mentioned before, but of COURSE they're gated from HW content if they don't decide to level a DoW/M to 50. They're already gated from unlocking crafting classes at all, accessing the GCs, the chocobo (and thus mounts), leves, and the Ixali dailies if they choose to not level a DoW/M, why would HW be any different?
They'll still be able to level from 51-60, but the new quest stuff won't be there unless they unlock it. Just like everything else I mentioned.

I'm surprised so many level 50's are complaining they need to complete the main story. You need it to unlock content like dungeons. Also it's like.... the main part of the game, a FINAL FANTASY game.

To the level 50's complaining about newbies: I'm pretty sure people will be enjoying the brand new game and content (to them, as new players) that was created from 1-50 than worrying about Ishguard which they can't do anything in anyway due to their low level. As well, the level 50 quests post-Preatorium give EXP for 50+.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

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So they should make all the veteran's revert back to level 1 then and start all over with the new players to more-or-less level the playing field to make (Actual) new players feel warm and fuzzy or when they create a character and when they log in for the first time start at level 50 just so they can enter expansion content for the lvl30 new jobs just so to skip old content that they never played to begin with I doubt the dev team who worked hard to create that said old content intended that said new player to just skip it, should they delete 2.0 then. This is more what a small % of current player's base wants not the actual new player as I see it?

Honestly it a multiplayer game and everyone has different ways or time restraint that factor in or has excessive time to play it the nature of the beast in any mmo. The leveling system is a joke as it stands for this game today and is going to made even more of a joke with all the changes Yoshi mention after the expansion release and it seems people want to make it even more of a joke. Seriously if we keep going down this road might as well log in as level 60 with full ilvl170, how I see this very blinded mindset of it take too long to level mentally is going. Besides allot of the side attractions primal HM/EX, optional dungeons ect, can be skipped if your goal is just purely getting to expansion content, and it all can be done later on if said player wanted.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

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I disagree completely. 2.X, besides lore reasons, teaches players how to play their roles and they keep hammering it in while also introducing new mechanics along the way to keep them on their toes. 3.0 isn't a fresh start on any of that, so if you drag in a new player who hasn't fully learned their roles, you're just going to make them overwhelmed between new things they have to learn that they should have learned in 2.X and dealing with drama from seasoned players who will get sick of wiping cause of the new guy. All of 2.X was about the new player, but you can't keep coddling them forever. You want new people to be able to jump into 3.0 right away, but that would mean Yoshi's team needing to create even more content just for the fresh player or somehow moving all the old content into 3.0 somehow. As I said previously, 3.0 won't be going anywhere and friends that want their friends to get into the game would be doing all they can to help them catch up.

It is really funny how many people whine about that you need to complete the MSQ before you can go to Ishgard.What did you expect?This is a FINAL FANTASY game,you should know that FF games are always story driven.I understand that this is not always good but hell,if you find this really annoying then go and play an other MMORPG,which suits you more.It is not like SE force you to play......or?(please help me yoshida wants to kill me if i doesnt agree with him xD)

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Originally Posted by Spontaner

It is really funny how many people whine about that you need to complete the MSQ before you can go to Ishgard.What did you expect?This is a FINAL FANTASY game,you should know that FF games are always story driven.

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If that is the case in regards to xiv then why did SE incorporate so many ways to hit max level in all the classes/jobs and be able to raid while easily by passing the msq?

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

If that is the case in regards to xiv then why did SE incorporate so many ways to hit max level in all the classes/jobs and be able to raid while easily by passing the msq?

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There are some ways to circumvent the msq to do content, but I think saying it's "easily" passed is a bit dishonest. In general you've gotta do the msq to do most things, and even the things that don't technically require it will require something close, or requires you to go way out of your way to do so. The easiest way by far to play this game is by following the msq.

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Originally Posted by Tuathaa

If that is the case in regards to xiv then why did SE incorporate so many ways to hit max level in all the classes/jobs and be able to raid while easily by passing the msq?

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Firstly you can't raid without having completed the MSQ up to the end of 2.0 which is where all the 2.x content branches off from so nice try there. Not only that but anyone raiding would need to initially gear up using tomestones, of which at least one dungeon in each expert tier was locked behind that patch's MSQ so you needed to complete the MSQ to access the roulette.

Second, the diverse options for leveling exist mostly because the MSQ will only get one job to the cap. After that you need to level in other ways. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make because if you'd played the game you would know this.

I don't know if this has been said, but I got my first 50 from doing the MSQ. It's an easy way to hit 50. At least this way you learn how to play your job rather than FATE grinding to 50 and having no clue how to play the job.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Firstly you can't raid without having completed the MSQ up to the end of 2.0 which is where all the 2.x content branches off from so nice try there. Not only that but anyone raiding would need to initially gear up using tomestones, of which at least one dungeon in each expert tier was locked behind that patch's MSQ so you needed to complete the MSQ to access the roulette.

Second, the diverse options for leveling exist mostly because the MSQ will only get one job to the cap. After that you need to level in other ways. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make because if you'd played the game you would know this.

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This is the same person a few pages back who claimed you could get a relic without even doing much of the MSQ, which they're now saying you can easily "bypass" said MSQ. I smell shenanigans.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

This is the same person a few pages back who claimed you could get a relic without even doing much of the MSQ, which they're now saying you can easily "bypass" said MSQ. I smell shenanigans.

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Honestly this whole thread is shenanigans

Get the brooms!