The Black Mage Rotations

Ok, new level 50 BLM here and although I've read through a lot of this thread, I just want to confirm what is currently the best rotations. Since there's been a lot of theory crafting going on and I've never really seen anyone post definites... unless I just missed it of course. :)

Single target:

Blizzard III, Thunder II, Fire III, Fire (until below 1K), repeat? Making sure to use procs any time they hit (Fire III and Thunder III)?

AOE:

Fire III, Fire II, Fire II, Fire II, SC/Flare, convert, Flare, Transpose/wait 2 seconds after first mana tick, Flare, Fire II, Flare, repeat from Transpose until everything is dead?

Thanks. ^.^

Single target -- yes. Additionally, if you get a thundercloud proc and a Firestarter proc at the same time, your instant thunder spell takes priority over your free Fire III spell. The reason for this is that Thundercloud has a chance to immediately proc again, while firestarter does not.

AOE. I would suggest getting accustomed to hardcasting the first flare in this rotation and using swiftcast for the second. The reason for that is it's more likely your target is nearing death after your first flare and it really sucks to waste a global cooldown by blowing your second flare on a target that dies before you complete your cast. But this rotation as you describe is fine. Just pay attention to your targets' health and switch targets as necessary.

Quick question: Why do you use Thunder II in the single target rotation? Is it because potency per second cast is slightly better than Thunder III? What if there's only 1 boss and I can swiftcast Thunder III?

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Originally Posted by Zapf

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Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.

Has anyone tested these out?

Fire III-Flare-Convert-Swiftcast-Flare-Transpose and wait a second after 1st MP tick-Flare-Flare, repeat From transpose. (So, basically cutting out Fire IIs in favor of more Flares)

Or

Fire III, Fire II, Fire II, Fire II, Flare, convert, swiftcast, Flare, Transpose, Bizzard III, repeat from the beginning? (without the convert/swiftcast the second time).

The endless Flares one feels a little clumsy, since it's so timing based. You'll some times end up having to sit and wait for transpose if you didn't time it right to get that MP tick after casting the UIII Flare. The second rotation wouldn't feel as clumsy, but I have a feeling it may not do as much damage.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Quick question: Why do you use Thunder II in the single target rotation? Is it because potency per second cast is slightly better than Thunder III? What if there's only 1 boss and I can swiftcast Thunder III?

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I wondered that too, and the answer I kept seeing is because the MP difference may take away one of your fire I casts (before having to use Blizzard III) and also the extra cast time wasn't worth the slight difference in potency. It was also said that you'd sometimes have to wait a second for the first UIII MP tick after Blizzard III in order to have enough Mana to cast Thunder III again. Which could slow down your DPS.

Personally, I made this macro...

/macroicon "Thunder III"
/ac "Thunder III" <t>
/ac "Thunder II" <t>
/ac "Thunder I" <t>

This way, Thunder III is always used for procs and my hard casts after Blizzard III are based off available MP. So, my rotation never has to stop because I didn't have enough MP for a Thunder III or even II.

Before I'm yelled at for using a Macro, I'm on a controller and it's hard to have all three Thunders on their own spot. :D

I'm curious if anyone has compared only using a Firestarter proc to start a new rotation.
So holding it until after UI3 and then using it to start AF3 when full MP.

The reason I ask is because F3 has 3.5 second cast. So unless you get really lucky with more than 1 FS per F1 spam then would it be better to shave 3.5 seconds off getting into AF3 initially by holding the FS proc.

Single target might look like this.
B3>T2>SC F3>F1 Spam>B3>T2>Scathe>FS proc>F1 spam

While i have not read every single page i usually always for single target use swiftcast>Ice 3> thunder 2> Fire 3> Fire 1 until mana drain, then Ice 3 or how far into the fight would cast Flare > Convert> Ice 3> and so on
Of course when thundercloud or Firestarter procs i will cast it a few rotations after words. Also do people actually still use Transpose at lvl 50? I looked at transpose moreso of when you are low level and need to get into Umbral Ice or what not and once you get ice 3 there is no real need of it anymore? Just wondering if some feel the same

Transpose is good for when you screw up your rotation and find yourself out of mana unexpectedly. I also use it after pulls that I end in astral 3 so that I will regen mana, or when bosses jump/disappear and I have some time to wait. That way I am almost always at full mana or close by the time the next part of the fight starts.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

The reason I ask is because F3 has 3.5 second cast. So unless you get really lucky with more than 1 FS per F1 spam then would it be better to shave 3.5 seconds off getting into AF3 initially by holding the FS proc.

Single target might look like this.
B3>T2>SC F3>F1 Spam>B3>T2>Scathe>FS proc>F1 spam

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That's not true. When you're in UI3, your next Fire/Flare cast time is cut in half. For F3, the cast will be reduced to 1.75s (not counting spell speed). Since your next cast after that will be limited by the GCD, this is effectively 2.5s, not 3.5s.

Actually, Swiftcast is not as instant as it claims. You have to cast Swiftcast and then wait a half a second or so before casting F3. Even if you do this, you still have to wait for the 2.5s GCD after casting F3 anyways, for a total of 3.0+ seconds. Thus, it takes longer to Swiftcast F3 (under UI3) than casting it normally!

The only advantage for Swiftcasting F3 or using a FS proc in this case is that it lets you move after casting (while you're waiting for the GCD) without losing DPS.

Anyone else notice more frequent thundercloud procs with thunder III?

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Originally Posted by Shiggysonson

Anyone else notice more frequent thundercloud procs with thunder III?

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Nah it is the same as always. There is a chance where you would get 4 procs in a row back to back. Also if you thunder more than one target you will get a better chance at thunder cloud. Example thunder I/II on both soldiers in T4 or both snakes in T1.

Single target

T2 - F3 - F1 spam - B3 - (B1, SC, virus, T2) - (swift cast/ when available) - F3 - F1 spam

T2 - F3 - F1 spam - B3 - F1 (fast cast given by B3) (swift cast/ when available) - F3 - F1 spam

multiple target

F3 - F2 spam - flare - transpose -repeat

F3 - F2 spam - flare - transpose - swift cast - flare - convert - flare - transpose - [(F3 - F2 - flare) repeat]

When I get it right, after the nerf of Blizzard II, ist is not useful in the multiple target rotation anymore. But I wonder, if anyone has tested to use Freeze instead, whose damage was increased with 2.1, if I remember right. So what about this AoE rotation?

F3 - F2 spam - Flare - Transpose - Freeze - Freeze

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Originally Posted by qivis

When I get it right, after the nerf of Blizzard II, ist is not useful in the multiple target rotation anymore. But I wonder, if anyone has tested to use Freeze instead, whose damage was increased with 2.1, if I remember right. So what about this AoE rotation?

F3 - F2 spam - Flare - Transpose - Freeze - Freeze

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Best rotation with 4+ target (good timing is required, high risk) is

setup: F3 - F2 spam - Flare
rotation : Transpose - wait 2 sec - Flare - Fire 2 - Flare

Best rotation with 2-3 target is
setup: F3 - F2 spam - Flare
rotation: Transpose - F3 - F2 - F2 - Flare

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Best rotation with 2-3 target is
setup: F3 - F2 spam - Flare

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Why not just F3 -> Flare -> Transpose -> F3 -> F2 -> F2 -> Flare -> Transpose etc.? Assuming tank can mantain aggro.
F2 is more like filler for Traspose cooldown.

Thanks for your answer :)

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Originally Posted by LetBloodline

Best rotation with 4+ target (good timing is required, high risk) is
setup: F3 - F2 spam - Flare
rotation : Transpose - wait 2 sec - Flare - Fire 2 - Flare

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I do not want to use this rotation, because I think it is kind of using a bug (everyone should decide that for him/herself, no judging). So I would like to know if my rotation is better for 4+ targets than your second rotation.

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Originally Posted by qivis

F3 - F2 spam - Flare - Transpose - Freeze - Freeze

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Unfortunately, even with the potency increase Freeze is still pretty bad. It would either need a higher potency or a shorter cast time to be worth using like Blizzard II in the old rotation. Even with its nerf, Blizzard II would probably still work better here...

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Originally Posted by FurryFury

Why not just F3 -> Flare -> Transpose -> F3 -> F2 -> F2 -> Flare -> Transpose etc.? Assuming tank can mantain aggro.
F2 is more like filler for Traspose cooldown.

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You will do overall more damage by including Fire II. In the very short term, yes, going straight to Flare is a little higher DPS, but if the enemy is going to survive long enough for you to need to use Transpose, you'll want to include the Fire IIs.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1816927

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Originally Posted by ShinryuReishiki

Unfortunately, even with the potency increase Freeze is still pretty bad. It would either need a higher potency or a shorter cast time to be worth using like Blizzard II in the old rotation. Even with its nerf, Blizzard II would probably still work better here...

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I agree. Freeze only does 100 potency, which is weak compared to the rest of our arsenal. Not only that, but targeting the ground takes extra time and you could miss. I'll do the math just for fun:

Again, N is the number of targets and PPS is potency per second.

When I tried it back when 2.1 first came out, I could do this in 30s (theoretically):
F3 > F2 x 4 > Flare > Transpose > Freeze > Freeze (30s)
Potency formula: (1388 x N + 154) / 30 = 46.3N + 5.1 PPS

If you can do it faster and save a mana tick, then it would be 27s:
F3 > F2 x 4 > Flare > Transpose > Freeze > Freeze (27s)
Potency formula: (1388 x N + 154) / 27 = 51.4N + 5.7 PPS

I say theoretically because I couldn't actually do F2 4 times. However, the cast time is 3.0s (minus spell speed), so this would extend the rotation by exactly one mana tick (3.0s).

This still doesn't compare to the established AoE rotations:
Transpose > F3 > F2 > F2 > Flare: 55.2N + 18.2 PPS
Transpose > wait 2s > Flare > F2 > Flare: 58.8N PPS

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Nah it is the same as always. There is a chance where you would get 4 procs in a row back to back. Also if you thunder more than one target you will get a better chance at thunder cloud. Example thunder I/II on both soldiers in T4 or both snakes in T1.

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It'd be a bit higher in the long run because you have an extra tic for it to proc off of.

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Originally Posted by O-Deka-K

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Thank you very much :)

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You will do overall more damage by including Fire II. In the very short term, yes, going straight to Flare is a little higher DPS, but if the enemy is going to survive long enough for you to need to use Transpose, you'll want to include the Fire IIs.

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Thats a big IF right there, imo. On small mob packs most groups will have at least one non-AoE DPS, so with long (4 GCDs till 1st Flare) opener some mobs will be dead before Flare, wasting its potential.

I agree the math comes out that Fire II in the middle makes for more theoretical DPS but in real situations, I don't use Fire II at all as back to back Flares with the mana tick glitch fit very comfortably between Transposes. This is the AoE rotation I always use once in AF3:

Flare==>Transpose==>(wait 2s from first mana tick)==>Flare

That's it. The only time I use a Fire II or something in between is when I'm going to Swiftcast the second Flare thus leaving me with a couple seconds to spare before Transpose is up.

Also, in the spirit of April Fool's day and Yoshi-p avatars, I leave you with the following:

"Hai. Haihaihai. Haihai. Haihaihai. Hai. Haihaihaihaihaihai. Hai. Haihai. LOOK FORWARD TO IT"

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"Hai. Haihaihai. Haihai. Haihaihai. Hai. Haihaihaihaihaihai. Hai. Haihai. LOOK FORWARD TO IT"

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couldn't have said it better myself.

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Originally Posted by Synovius

I agree the math comes out that Fire II in the middle makes for more theoretical DPS but in real situations, I don't use Fire II at all as back to back Flares with the mana tick glitch fit very comfortably between Transposes. This is the AoE rotation I always use once in AF3:

Flare==>Transpose==>(wait 2s from first mana tick)==>Flare

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Problem now is with lag i assume because of 2.2, i do not even get a mana tick after transpose, have to wait longer and then am forced to use ice multiple times just to get some mana back.
Pre 2.2 it worked perfect so i agree with your rotation^, lol

Whats your avg dps on Titan EX and or the other primals?

what's the best way to put raging strikes into our rotation?

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Originally Posted by IrealiTY

Whats your avg dps on Titan EX and or the other primals?

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Titan EX can be a bit tricky for BLM but once you are really comfortable with the timings it gets much better. At my gear level of i92, I'm seeing around 220-250 DPS on Titan EX with the best parse I've ever pulled on it being somewhere around 275 (not likely to happen again). For Garuda, you can get much higher than this. For Ifrit, I would expect around the same numbers as Titan Ex - perhaps even a bit lower.

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Originally Posted by Qvoth

what's the best way to put raging strikes into our rotation?

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You should use Raging Strikes at the start of your rotation's Astral Fire phase. For example, on my opener, I go:

Blizzard III ==> Thunder II ==> Fire III ==> Raging Strikes ==> Fire I spam

Because that Fire III is at half cast time, you can almost fit the Raging Strikes into the GCD that's still going after Fire III before starting in with your Fire I spam (almost - you'll still miss a split second of time before starting your first Fire I).

For uses of Raging Strikes later in the fight, I either use it similarly to the above, or I will attempt to use it immediately after a Firestarter proc is used but while I still have a good amount of mana for Fire I spam (since Fire III is instant with Firestarter meaning that you are GCD locked anyway).


Also, I'm updating the OP with ACC levels for the new turns of Coil just for reference.

I usually use Raging strikes before i will start bombarding with fire so Raging Strikes> Fire3> F1, etc.
I now get a mana tick after transpose so glad it is working again :)
And Synovius i pretty much have the same rotation as you have posted ^
Definately use if Fire Procs ;)

I'm not at endgame yet, but will pick up these rotations when i do get there (really only use flare and transpose for Aoe?)

But these are my rotations for my level (39)

(I will be using bliz 3, thunder 2, fire 3 from now on. didn't know about the free fire)

Single Target (my level): Thunder 2 > Fire 3> spam fire 1 > bliz 3 > reapply thunder 2 if necessary > Bliz 1 until full MP > repeat

Single Target (lower level and can't use all spells): Thunder 2 > Fire 1 > scathe > transpose > bliz 1 > scathe > transpose > repeat (use thunder 2 on ice if i can)

(btw i'm not gettitng half cast time for fire 3 with umbral 2)

Multi Target (my level): Thunder 2 on one or more mobs > fire 2 > Transpose > freeze > transpose > repeat

Something that might help, if you're having trouble doing double Flare consistently: it takes 1.9 seconds give or take for the ice orb to do a full rotation around you; close enough to always get a mana tick after Flare from what I tested for a few minutes straight.

knowing how to level up a black mage is hard not to metion being lvl 31 but i mange i wanted to know how to level real fast with black mage and what gear i can get to be
and look black mage material at level 30 -40 :cool: :eek: :rolleyes::p

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Originally Posted by kurama3435

knowing how to level up a black mage is hard not to metion being lvl 31 but i mange i wanted to know how to level real fast with black mage and what gear i can get to be
and look black mage material at level 30 -40 :cool: :eek: :rolleyes::p

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There's two mentality:
Crit>Det>Spell Speed. Most BLM use that build and it's better if you don't have a lot of Spell Speed.

Spell Speed>Crit>Det. What I believe is the superior choice. More spells means more procs. People will argue that in reality, you have to move during fight and you lose casts meaning you waste your stats. I disagree. This is where your skills to get as many cast possible while moving comes in play.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

There's two mentality:
Crit>Det>Spell Speed. Most BLM use that build and it's better if you don't have a lot of Spell Speed.

Spell Speed>Crit>Det. What I believe is the superior choice. More spells means more procs. People will argue that in reality, you have to move during fight and you lose casts meaning you waste your stats. I disagree. This is where your skills to get as many cast possible while moving comes in play.

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I haven't looked at the math in a bit but I'm fairly certain DET is way behind both SSp and Crit in any build. In the previous tier, I went pure crit. This tier, I'm trying out pure SSp. SSp has proven especially nice for fights like Turn 8 where I'm basically standing still for 95% of the fight.

SSp is definitely the way to go in T8. There is a lot of movement in T9 but you can counter it with Aetherial Manipulation. Det is a good stat and I won't say no to it. But I,m standing at 2.3sec cast time, 2.14 with Selene buff xD

In a PERFECT WORLD Spell Speed outstrips crit fairly quickly and scales much better into ilvl 90+ gear...That said the amount of movement required in T6/7 MAY cause some BLM to want to itemize crit to get the most out of their uptime. I personally prefer a SS based build as I like to get off as many spells as possible when I can stand still and after ~26-27 casts SS outstrips crit (massive luck withstanding) and we cast that many fires easily within the first minute or two of the fight. As we enter ilvl 110 gear though we're more starved on spell speed gear to the point where we'll likely have similar amounts of crit as ss if we itemize towards ss, so the point may be mute by the time we are reaching our bis lists.

I made some calcs, I'll have about the exact same SS than I had in 2.1, about the same crit in 2.1 but I'll have more Det. I confirmed last night that T8 and T9 share the same accuracy cap for BLM. I'll assume it's the same for anyone.

As far math is concerner we now (2.2) have SS and crit paired (crit a little higher) then det was left behind since it didn't scale. You can find more in the relative topic in this section

but, for info, best gear set lv 90 BLM? :)

Hi, thank for this thread, it's very interesting. (Fresh level 50 BLM, my main is PLD, second WHM.)

It would be interesting if you mention also the buffs or debuffs that are useful or necessary, because probably you need or it's advisable to use them in the middle of rotations.

I see manawall nullifies 2 physical attacks for 60s, and its wait time is 120 s. I suppose this means you not only don't get damage but also don't get interrupted, so it is very useful, isn't it? Should it be used every time there's risk of a physical attack, just in case? Or reserved for a known future moment where it will be necessary? (Does manawall also nullify Titan HM attacks? Not yet started the relic quest for BLM.)

You also don't mention raging strikes (except somebody who recommends not to use it to avoid unwanted enmity.) Should it be always avoided in AoE attacks (but not in one-target attacks)? Or when should it be avoided?

Also tips about swiftcast and surecast use would be useful.

Thanks in advance.

I usually use Raging Strikes after i cast Fire 3 and if you are worried at all about this you can also pop in Quelling Strikes ;)
Myself for speed runs i do use Raging Strikes and have not had too many issues.
Surecast is very rarely used but i mainly have only used it in Brayflox hm on final boss were large bomb drops, here i pop in Surecast and lb it.
Ideally swiftcast i try to fit in my rotation so it is available after i cast my 1st flare, so after Flare you can transpose and either wait for a mana tick (which i have been having issues with lately) or just transpose> convert> swiftcast> and proceed with rotation so either another flare or Ice 3, etc.

Myself i have been going for Crit with my gear for now.
Also for rotations have been trying out Freeze, do any of you use it for aoe?
It seems fine for the most part