Revelations from Patch 7.3: The Promise of Tomorrow

I don't think it's impossible for the WOL to go back and become Azem, I just think it would be bad writing, it would spit on everything previously established about shards being their own people, and it would be a slap in the face to everyone who came up with their own headcanon for what Azem was like. If you want to imagine it's true for your own Azem, that's fine, but there's no way they're going to force that on everyone when they won't even confirm where the Warrior of Light was born.

As for Calyx, I don't see anything interesting coming out of him being an Azem shard, but even if he was, wouldn't that work against the notion of the WOL soul-voring all their reflections? Calyx doesn't have a soul anymore. His soul was reborn probably hundreds of years ago in some random person. (There's also a theory going around that the Ascian at the end of 7.3 is the real, ensouled version of Calyx; if that's true, then he can't be an Azem shard because the Ascians would never in a thousand thousand lifetimes uplift a shard of Azem.)

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

[...]and it would be a slap in the face to everyone who came up with their own headcanon for what Azem was like.

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Which is especially bad, because I genuinely feel like catering to those people is kind of the point of Azem. It's another cipher of a character to put in so you can imagine Your Favorite Guy for this world, being friends with people that the writers know, statistically speaking, you probably like (and if you don't, too bad). They provide no information, because the entire point is that you fill a bunch of it in yourself.

Honestly, every variant on Azem has been a riff on a self-insert cipher character. The WoL is fairly obviously a blank-slate player avatar; Ardbert is an everyman stand-in, deliberately using the design from the trailers; the nebulous non-answer of the Thirteenth lets you go full carte blanche, with the writers just going 'we aren't telling you, go ham'. I feel like it's actually against the intention of any version of Azem to give more characterization to any of them than we have been.

Calyx is a 10/10 villain as it is, he doesn't need to be More Special--and frankly, the fact that he's a 'thinking villain' in a game otherwise full of 'feeling villains already makes him special enough.

A tiny detail that probably doesn't mean anything

For the past couple of patches, it's been Y'shtola who has been prodding about knowing more about The Key, but if you talk to all the Scions after 7.3, it is Krile who is insisting we investigate The Key now (on top of wanting to learn more about the Millala). Y'shtola is interested in figure out who mentored Calyx in primal summoning, and the use of Concepts. She believes there might be clues in Preservation's records. I find it a little odd that interest in The key shifted from Y'shtola to Krile, but they are chatting with each other so maybe we investigate Calyx's knowledge, Preservation, and The Key with the both of them next time.

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

I don't think it's impossible for the WOL to go back and become Azem, I just think it would be bad writing, it would spit on everything previously established about shards being their own people, and it would be a slap in the face to everyone who came up with their own headcanon for what Azem was like. If you want to imagine it's true for your own Azem, that's fine, but there's no way they're going to force that on everyone when they won't even confirm where the Warrior of Light was born.

As for Calyx, I don't see anything interesting coming out of him being an Azem shard, but even if he was, wouldn't that work against the notion of the WOL soul-voring all their reflections? Calyx doesn't have a soul anymore. His soul was reborn probably hundreds of years ago in some random person. (There's also a theory going around that the Ascian at the end of 7.3 is the real, ensouled version of Calyx; if that's true, then he can't be an Azem shard because the Ascians would never in a thousand thousand lifetimes uplift a shard of Azem.)

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So here’s the thing about having it both ways in a reply. You start by saying you don’t think it’s impossible, which is polite, but couch the idea as bad writing, which is opinion, and yours to have - but then later you sneak in a, “there’s no way” as a definitive.

And well, your definitive is just not definitive. It’s equally possible we don’t know where our WOL was born, because the writers are keeping that info vague to support a stable time loop. (Possible, but definitely not their original intention).

I think it would just be cool if folks quit slapping down ideas, simply because they don’t fit their personal headcanon. I do my best to couch what I toss out as “could be” and “let’s see” and not to yuck anyone else’s yum by saying anything as an absolute. If you told me you’re working on a theory that Azem is a Spriggan, and set out some possible reasons why, I might even entertain the idea in this forum, because we don’t know that isn’t true. (And it would be very funny if it was).

As far as Calyx goes, I already threw out some ideas for where his soul might be. And the WOL doesn’t have to eat Calyx or anyone else. It’s entirely possible a bad Azem/Us shard is already doing just that - maybe even the Ascian we saw in 7.3 (or their boss).

If this notion isn’t your jam, that’s legitimate. Just know that it is my jam (:

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Yeah, 'Winterer' is a funny word like that. Just form looking at the word you reflexively associate it with the season, and therefore 'snow, ice, cold', but it's not actually about that, a winterer is 'someone who goes away during the winter'. And you wouldn't exactly associate a hummingbird with snow and ice--in fact, the fact you don't is kind of the point of wintering.

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Jumping in, as I finished MSQ this morning. While I don't remember the word being capitalized in French, I remember it being in italics. Maybe I'm wrong...

The word is odd in French too, which is not a language as neologism-friendly as English is. They chose "hivernautes" which doesn't exist in French.
The suffix -naute means "explorer", as in "astronaute" or Argonauts (in the golden fleece myth, that's the name of the Argo crew).
Now there is a subtlety in the choice of "hivern-" instead of "hibern-" to create the word. "HiBerner" is the same as the English hibernate, it means sleeping through the winter. "HiVerner" means to spend the winter, usually somewhere different than the rest of the year (like birds migrating).
Yet, the word for winter is "hiver", and the "-naute" suffix has to be attached to a noun, and not a verb so I think it's just that : explorer/navigator of the winter

I like to geek on linguistics lol

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

So here’s the thing about having it both ways in a reply. You start by saying you don’t think it’s impossible, which is polite, but couch the idea as bad writing, which is opinion, and yours to have - but then later you sneak in a, “there’s no way” as a definitive.

And well, your definitive is just not definitive. It’s equally possible we don’t know where our WOL was born, because the writers are keeping that info vague to support a stable time loop. (Possible, but definitely not their original intention).

I think it would just be cool if folks quit slapping down ideas, simply because they don’t fit their personal headcanon. I do my best to couch what I toss out as “could be” and “let’s see” and not to yuck anyone else’s yum by saying anything as an absolute. If you told me you’re working on a theory that Azem is a Spriggan, and set out some possible reasons why, I might even entertain the idea in this forum, because we don’t know that isn’t true. (And it would be very funny if it was).

As far as Calyx goes, I already threw out some ideas for where his soul might be. And the WOL doesn’t have to eat Calyx or anyone else. It’s entirely possible a bad Azem/Us shard is already doing just that - maybe even the Ascian we saw in 7.3 (or their boss).

If this notion isn’t your jam, that’s legitimate. Just know that it is my jam (:

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When I said "I don't think it's impossible", I was speaking from an in-universe standpoint. When I said "there's no way", I was talking about what the writers and devs are inclined to do.

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

When I said "I don't think it's impossible", I was speaking from an in-universe standpoint. When I said "there's no way", I was talking about what the writers and devs are inclined to do.

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Well, “inclined” and “no way” are two rather different avenues of possibility.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Jumping in, as I finished MSQ this morning. While I don't remember the word being capitalized in French, I remember it being in italics. Maybe I'm wrong...

The word is odd in French too, which is not a language as neologism-friendly as English is. They chose "hivernautes" which doesn't exist in French.
The suffix -naute means "explorer", as in "astronaute" or Argonauts (in the golden fleece myth, that's the name of the Argo crew).
Now there is a subtlety in the choice of "hivern-" instead of "hibern-" to create the word. "HiBerner" is the same as the English hibernate, it means sleeping through the winter. "HiVerner" means to spend the winter, usually somewhere different than the rest of the year (like birds migrating).
Yet, the word for winter is "hiver", and the "-naute" suffix has to be attached to a noun, and not a verb so I think it's just that : explorer/navigator of the winter

I like to geek on linguistics lol

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That's a very interesting name. I wonder what other languages used?

EDIT: Okay, Japanese just uses "winterer" in katakana. IDK about German....

Some things to consider

The Warrior of Light, as well as everyone else do not know Calyx is still alive or the existence of 'Winterers,' whomever they might be. Also Calyx's capabilities, and means of interacting with us are quite limited at this point. We don't even know where he escaped to, all we know is that someone like an Ascian can interact with that space. So I don't know how much impact they can have on the immediate future.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

Some things to consider

The Warrior of Light, as well as everyone else do not know Calyx is still alive or the existence of 'Winterers,' whomever they might be. Also Calyx's capabilities, and means of interacting with us are quite limited at this point. We don't even know where he escaped to, all we know is that someone like an Ascian can interact with that space. So I don't know how much impact they can have on the immediate future.

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Be that as it may...

The fact that Calyx painstakingly set up a Primal summoning clued everyone in to the fact that he had Ascian benefactors (if not flat out is one himself), so there will be zero surprises from the characters if (or rather when) the "Winterers" start making moves. Unlike Calyx (who is a digital "lifeform" bound to systems that can project him), Ascians can freely hop across reflections to cause trouble so I don't see why they wouldn't be able to antagonize us in the near future.