Tell that to the dev team and the community. Sure I agree with you where the rez isn't that valuable anymore but the rest of the community as a whole doesn't see it that way. Everyone and their mother still wants a caster with a rez and unless the devs delete the caster rez that never going to change. Rdm and smn will continue to dominate in pick rates for the caster role while BLM and Picto has to fight their hearts out to get that flex spot over another melee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stasya
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07-07-2024, 03:17 AMMrJPtheAssassin
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07-07-2024, 03:31 AMMaxilor
The whole concept of the 'Rez Tax' keeps coming up in these discussions.
How much should a class's DPS suffer/benefit from having/not having it?
Not to mention 'Mobility Tax', 'Utility Tax'...
It all just seems so arbitrary. -
07-07-2024, 03:37 AMMrJPtheAssassinIt's because these taxes has been the main focus point for job balancing for years now. There is a reason why physical range are the lowest DPS in the game even mch who is the selfish DPS in that role. It's the reason why last expac smn and rdm was next to phy range. These taxes are dumb I agree but that is a deciding factor why some jobs do more damage than others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxilor
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07-07-2024, 05:43 AMStasyaYeah we will see how picto will "fight" over caster or flex spotQuote:
Originally Posted by MrJPtheAssassin
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07-07-2024, 06:24 AMPoppetIt's because of body checks you HAVE to bring rez. Because doing a lot more damage can't resolve it. When dps mattered in P8S pre nerf and fights like DSR. BLM's playrate over doubled. When BLM didn't do enough damage in TOP it was straight up slot blacklisted. When fights started having more body checks BLM usage fell hard to the extent they made changes to BLM this expansion because of it to increase popularity. They did a very bad job though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stasya
Rez tax should be a thing. Having BLM/PCT doing crazy high damage even more than melee should be a thing so that they have value in being played. Also so they don't have a TOP situation again when they have to deal with suboptimal fight conditions making them worse dps than SMN/RDM. Having SMN/RDM do more damage with rez has only ever led to kicks and blacklisted slot caster slot for BLM. -
07-07-2024, 06:52 AMSequoraI would love to see where you’re getting your numbers. SAM and VPR are both beating PCT for nDPS (as they should).Quote:
Originally Posted by Stasya
Once you factor in rDPS, the numbers are all extremely close for PCT with the non phys range, nonSMN/RDM DPS. rDPS literally exists for nonSAM, nonBLM jobs. It takes their buffs into consideration so that people can see the number they actually contributed to a fight.
As others have said, the devs have been transparent around the fact that they do tax the damage of red mage and summoner for their Rez. I hate it too, but it’s the reality. The fact remains that PCT should deal similar damage to the nonVPR/SAM DPS. -
07-07-2024, 07:00 AMForteNightshadecDPS is the better metric to use when comparing jobs to one another per FFlogs' on description.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sequora
With that in mind, the discrepancy becomes far more apparent. Picto is top DPS even amongst the melee. Where they to buff Black Mage to a comparable level, you'd legitimately have zero reason to bring any of the phys range since a double melee/caster comp would deal higher damage in spite of the party buff.Quote:
cDPS allows you compare how well you and your raid played into burst windows and AOE buffs. It's a good way to look at job balance between eachother, and seeing which jobs have strong buffs while also providing good damage during other job's AOE buff windows.
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07-07-2024, 07:02 AMPoppet
People 100% drop 1/2 melee for 2 Caster, 1 Melee, 1 Ranged. Not because efficiency but job preference. With Picto's high popularity I could see dual Picto happening like early shb with blm just because 5.0 smn was that bad.
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07-07-2024, 07:24 AMMrJPtheAssassinI don't never remember a time where ppl took two BLM over a smn or Rdm. I was a smn main back in shb never once did I see pfs not have a smn or Rdm. I remember very well having to hurt for over a hour for a spot bc most pfs had already had a smn or Rdm in them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppet
So no I don't think you see dual Picto especially if they end up nerfing it to have smn/Rdm numbers. Even if it's popular. Ppl will still want a rez mage over any other caster and most likely rather have a BLM or a 2nd melee in the flex spot over a heavy nerfed pico. The fact is Picto will always lose out to a smn or Rdm bc it doesn't have a rez meaning the only way ppl will want one is if it has similar DPS as a non selfish melee job. -
07-07-2024, 07:30 AMSequoraMost people will go back to their mains in a month. This happens every single expansion, especially with DPS characters. There are a lot of people playing PCT and VPR right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppet
This includes players who normally heal or tank. Once the newness wears off most people will go back to what they normally play.