Dawntrail's mediatour dungeon was already cleared without healers.

Respectfully, this is effectively the final build. Please don't pretend we didn't all know going into this that the game's casual content is absolutely broken and completely boring.

And tbh we should have figured this anyway from the lack of reaction to the media tour dungeon. Dungeons are just going to be business as usual.

I'm not surprised. Player's meta gamed the fun out of dungeons years ago. I'm more surprised they haven't changed them to the more accurate name of hallways because that's all they are now anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

I'm not surprised. Player's meta gamed the fun out of dungeons years ago. I'm more surprised they haven't changed them to the more accurate name of hallways because that's all they are now anyway.

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There's always going to be some portion of players that optimize the fun out of something. That doesn't mean the game needs to optimize the fun out for everyone.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

There's always going to be some portion of players that optimize the fun out of something. That doesn't mean the game needs to optimize the fun out for everyone.

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Well, they did. That's why dungeons went from branching paths to hallways. And they will continue. We've gotten to the point where wall to walls are boring.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

Well, they did. That's why dungeons went from branching paths to hallways. And they will continue. We've gotten to the point where wall to walls are boring.

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They even nerfed a couple of dungeons because people complained that they were "too hard".
Dungeons that had been in the game for years upon years.
All that was required was for people to do the mechanics, but that was "too hard" apparently.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

They even nerfed a couple of dungeons because people complained that they were "too hard".
Dungeons that had been in the game for years upon years.
All that was required was for people to do the mechanics, but that was "too hard" apparently.

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It's gotten so bad recently that all you really have left is the story. Because Savage and Ultimates are so off-putting for casual players, and there's really nothing else. I know everyone is excited for the new exploratory zone, but I hated the last two, so I don't have high hopes as it is. But I knew dungeons were going to be an afterthought.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

I'm not surprised. Player's meta gamed the fun out of dungeons years ago. I'm more surprised they haven't changed them to the more accurate name of hallways because that's all they are now anyway.

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I'm not sure why people tend to blame the very small portion of players who optimise the fun out of the game for themselves when they should be blaming the developers for optimising the fun out of the game for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I'm not sure why people tend to blame the very small portion of players who optimise the fun out of the game for themselves when they should be blaming the developers for optimising the fun out of the game for everyone.

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The whole playerbase does it. People want to be efficient. We, the players, are to blame, but equal blame has to go to the developers who caved to our demands. You can't push one issue onto the other without damning both. It's disingenuous otherwise.

But I've been playing Classic Wow, so I can't speak on current, but when the healer leaves, the party dies. Everytime. At level 15 and at level 85. Something is wrong with this game clearly.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

The whole playerbase does it. People want to be efficient. We, the players, are to blame, but equal blame has to go to the developers who caved to our demands. You can't push one issue onto the other without damning both. It's disingenuous otherwise.

But I've been playing Classic Wow, so I can't speak on current, but when the healer leaves, the party dies. Everytime. At level 15 and at level 85. Something is wrong with this game clearly.

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The whole playerbase does it because the dev team has been pushing in this direction since Shadowbringers.

They've streamlined combat so much that you can't play in any other way than the optimal way. That's entirely the dev team deciding to optimise the fun out of their own game.

Players will always choose the most efficient way, that doesn't mean that the game developers have to redesign the game in such a way that everyone has no choice but to play optimally.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

The whole playerbase does it. People want to be efficient. We, the players, are to blame, but equal blame has to go to the developers who caved to our demands. You can't push one issue onto the other without damning both. It's disingenuous otherwise.

But I've been playing Classic Wow, so I can't speak on current, but when the healer leaves, the party dies. Everytime. At level 15 and at level 85. Something is wrong with this game clearly.

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I'd say, replace the tanks self heals with more defensives instead.
It's like you said, if the healer leaves/dies, the party dies.
Will people complain if that would happen? Yes.
But that would make it so that people will try harder for those situations to not happen.