Building a better Alphinaud

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm reminded of the male viera thread and how, when some of us decided to politely request a broad height and muscle slider as a compromise for the wide variety of different personal tastes the idea was repeatedly shot down. Interestingly enough by some of the same posters who come into story threads to start inane arguments, hurl bizarre insinuations around and generally strive to stamp out any calls for variety when it comes to literally any aspect of the game.

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You like to compare apples to boomerangs. Likewise, you once again are falling into the same rhetoric of claiming your opinion supports "variety" and anyone who disagrees with you, for some reason, isn't. You can like the Scions and also support the idea of expanding the roster.

Also, nobody is trying to "stamp out" you guys' opinion. You like to make broad claims as if they are objective points of quality or taste in media, and then act offended when someone says they aren't.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's an interesting trend some of us have cottoned on to - and a similar tactic deployed by social media mobs.

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Another interesting trend that's been cottoned onto is your constant attempts to Poison the Well. That is, compare people that disagree with you to broadly-disliked groups like "social media mobs", as if that somehow makes their arguments less valid.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm reminded of the male viera thread and how, when some of us decided to politely request a broad height and muscle slider as a compromise for the wide variety of different personal tastes the idea was repeatedly shot down. Interestingly enough by some of the same posters who come into story threads to start inane arguments, hurl bizarre insinuations around and generally strive to stamp out any calls for variety when it comes to literally any aspect of the game.

It's an interesting trend some of us have cottoned on to - and a similar tactic deployed by social media mobs.

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It always makes me chuckle when you start Indirectly calling out people...not to start a fight or argument on that...but I am curious.
Feel free to correct me, but Ill guess Im one of those "same posters"....when did I shoot down Variety?
Because; knowing my own words, I said ""You make it sound like they cant still introduce "new characters with more variety and interesting personalities" they absolutely still can, and they have. And they will continue to do so"". That sounds like support my dude...not shooting down.
Also...if Im remembering that conversation, I just laughed and denied the possibility of a FemRoe Slider on the Male Viera. Just didnt look like a possibility at the stage the Male Viera were at when they were presented.


Feel free to correct me if Im not involved in any way and I jumped the gun here.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Another interesting trend that's been cottoned onto is your constant attempts to Poison the Well. That is, compare people that disagree with you to broadly-disliked groups like "social media mobs", as if that somehow makes their arguments less valid.

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I will co-sign this...my dude, dont be childish.
You arn't offending anybody with your ideas and conversation to bring something you like/want into the game.
But for some reason you get really weird and defensive if you get any pushback and people disagree...or say anything that isn't 100% supporting you.
Its the same practice people use with criticizing FFXIV. If there is ANY amount of pushback, people get upset and cry foul "Im being shutdown/they are silencing us"

Stop it.
Your opinion is heard, its still there, and you have supporters. Its not going away because a few people dont agree.

You're free to believe what you wish. I was simply commenting on an interesting trend. I'm not here to argue, I'm here to voice my support for more variety where the game is concerned. I want a greater variety of options in this game for many reasons, not in the least because many aspects of the game appeal to and resonate with people different and the game is becoming a bit too one sided in terms of what it bringing to the table across the board.

For me it's just as simple as being a Scottish guy who grew up on a farm and I'd like to see a broader variety of characters who aren't just spoiled city dwellers who went to a fancy university in Sharlayan.

I'm also referring to more than just the Scions. I would have liked characters such as Arenvald and Fordola to step up and do more rather than be limited mostly to side content. A bit too late now - especially for the former - and if Fordola does end up playing a greater role in the future then hopefully she won't just be sanitised.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm also referring to more than just the Scions. I would have liked characters such as Arenvald and Fordola to step up and do more rather than be limited mostly to side content. A bit too late now - especially for the former - and if Fordola does end up playing a greater role in the future then hopefully she won't just be sanitised.

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Oh hey, finally, we can agree on something here.
I certainly hope we will see more of Arenvald and Fordola. Love those 2, and Fordola has been on the front abit more, so Id like to hope she might take on a Supporting Role if not become a main member of the group. Not specifically the Scions, but maybe a new group that might get formed.
I think your silly to think she will get soft...or "That Level" of soft. Not even Estinian completely changed, and Fordola is much rougher around the edges. I dont think thats gonna stop or change.

Even though I don't think this was directed at me(?) I wanted to respond.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

("How come X character I liked better died, while Y Scion(s) I don't like get to live?")

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The sentiment that Emet, Hyth, and even Venat were better/more interesting traveling companions/party members within the brief time they were on screen compared to the however many years it's been with the Scions is a common one. Like I said earlier, I don't think the issues with the Scions were as noticeable (at least to me) until we were put in a position to experience something else.

I also think EW in general wasn't a good vehicle for the Scions. There were issues with some of them regressing in character development, several serving redundant roles, a few having their characterization tweaked to be more in line with the others, etc. ShB did a much better job at having a purpose for each one.

Liking or not liking them is subjective. They ranged from boring to insufferable to me throughout EW. I was only slightly moved by two of them in UT. There were more times I found them irritating, but that also had a lot to do with the fact that EW lacked nuance and I wasn't on board with the narrative being pushed which, obviously, our moral arbiters were supporting. Suffice it to say, it's not as black and white as "why did X die and not a Scion?" It's also my personal preference to have more so-called "realists" in the party. Please give me people like Fordola, Matoya, Emet, or even Zenos types. I thought Estinien would bring much needed 'spice' only to be disappointed.

I think FFXIV in general has made the mistake of bloating the cast without knowing what to do with the characters and the fact remains that the Scions are homogeneous. The writers can't/won't commit to consequences, ushering them off screen for longer than a zone at a time, or having standard differences and disagreements that even best friends would have. This just isn't going to work long term. I'm seeing an increasing amount of people speaking up about it, including those who like the Scions (I don't dislike all of them either).

Side note, a friend of mine said, "Do you want the Scions to end up like the Plenty, where there was no conflict?" :P

I agree. A height and muscle slider for every character like Alphinaud would make him to match every preference. The lackluster story writers guild thread made the point that herois in the game are not traditionally masculine. Graha eats the burger but is not bulking! Height and muscle slider choices would help fix this. Until then there is the Scions of the Gym: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ym_is_growing/

I mean, if you want more interesting characters, wouldn't it be better to take already established characters like the scions, and give them storylines and arcs that help them grow into that? Instead of doing the work to introduce new characters (I mean, you can introduce new characters too.)

I agree that characters like Y'sthola are underdeveloped and underultilized, which is why I'm excited to see a story with a more narrow focus on her, instead of her being relegated to the role of the expoisition character because there isn't time for her to have an arc.

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Originally Posted by Graeham

I agree. A height and muscle slider for every character like Alphinaud would make him to match every preference. The lackluster story writers guild thread made the point that herois in the game are not traditionally masculine. Graha eats the burger but is not bulking! Height and muscle slider choices would help fix this. Until then there is the Scions of the Gym: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ym_is_growing/

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I think you're my favorite poster on these forums.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

Even though I don't think this was directed at me(?) I wanted to respond.

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It wasn't, specifically, just for the record.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

The sentiment that Emet, Hyth, and even Venat were better/more interesting traveling companions/party members within the brief time they were on screen compared to the however many years it's been with the Scions is a common one.

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However, this is with the caveat that we're kind of "preconditioned" to find them interesting by that point. These are the characters who, for better or worse, have shaped the entire FFXIV world for the past 12,000 years, and within the context of the story, we're there to learn as much about them and their world as we can to find out what went wrong and whether or not it can help the present. I'll agree that they were exceptionally well-written (for the most part) and thus compelling throughout our journey in Elpis, but that doesn't change the fact that this largely because we've been hearing about each of these characters, or things they've affected in the future, for at least two expansions or more.

I don't think this discredits the notion that the writers can and should make similarly-compelling characters in the future...just that the Elpis bunch all had the benefit of fanservice.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm reminded of the male viera thread and how, when some of us decided to politely request a broad height and muscle slider as a compromise for the wide variety of different personal tastes the idea was repeatedly shot down. Interestingly enough by some of the same posters who come into story threads to start inane arguments, hurl bizarre insinuations around and generally strive to stamp out any calls for variety when it comes to literally any aspect of the game.

It's an interesting trend some of us have cottoned on to - and a similar tactic deployed by social media mobs.

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This is a funny take because your buddy here basically just told us we're fine with xivs characters as is because we don't consume other "better" media. Also hyperbole isn't going to help your case. It never does and never will

Please make the case for why the cast of FFXIV is better than the cast of FFIX or Dragon Age Origins then. Tell me how this party of characters that has failed to evolve in meaningful ways, have any real stakes, and in several cases has regressed character progression compares to the casts of other media.