Is this the BEST they could come up with?

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Considering that all those "Redundant spells" cost LESS MP, and were more viable for situations were you don't "OMGWTFCUREBOMBNAO" every 5 seconds, I'd say we lose a great deal without them in the game.

Also, considering water has NO REPLACEMENT in the game, I'd say any of those spells were far from redundant.

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The MP pool is and was big enough to handle the upper tier spells. The lower level spells cost less MP, but were definitely a waste of time both in using them, equipping them, and casting them.

The correct answer is: Yes Rhomagus, you are technically correct. Those spells were redundant.

I'm with you if you were calling for Dia, Bio, Asper, and Drain back but even then, the cap is only 50 at the moment. This applies to Water as well.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Considering that all those "Redundant spells" cost LESS MP, and were more viable for situations were you don't "OMGWTFCUREBOMBNAO" every 5 seconds, I'd say we lose a great deal without them in the game.

Also, considering water has NO REPLACEMENT in the game, I'd say any of those spells were far from redundant.

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then also add into account they removed fire 1, fire 2, and fire 3/ lightning 1, lightning 2, and lightning 3 because they were redundant and they added in fire, fira, firaga/thunder, thundara, and thundaga to replace all of the other spells. it went from redundant to boring and redundant.

you are correct we did lose a great deal in the game and got back the exact same thing in a more boring and generic form.

I totally agree that stoneskin is almost worthless because it only lasts one hit, usually. It should last five minutes like it promises. I also agree that casting Protect every 5 min is annoying as most battles that use Protect last twenty. But overall, FFXIV is better than XI because you can pay more attention to what's happening and don't get so caught up in deciding which spell to cast next. I never saw a battle in FFXI... only saw the spells I was choosing. I played Red Mage and Blue Mage and loved them... but FFXIV is unique, different, and I like what SE has done. I also see SE changing some things as we go along and although some changes are annoying, most changes are alright after I get used to them. I have a motto for this: If Final Fantasy is not annoying, it isn't Final fantasy! lol

I mostly agree with Kiroh.

I could say i agree with OP too, but IMO the action bar never was the issue.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

then also add into account they removed fire 1, fire 2, and fire 3/ lightning 1, lightning 2, and lightning 3 because they were redundant and they added in fire, fira, firaga/thunder, thundara, and thundaga to replace all of the other spells. it went from redundant to boring and redundant.

you are correct we did lose a great deal in the game and got back the exact same thing in a more boring and generic form.

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Decent point, but the spells do act differently while the old tiers were just more powerful versions of the base spell. Granted they could've made the tiers act differently too but I prefer changing the name.

What they should've done was have the naming mechanics act the same across the board.

For example:

Fire = Deals Fire Damage
Fira = Deals Fire Damage with a chance to inflict burn (more mp but less initial damage with a greater potential for DoT)
Firaga = Deals Fire Damage to all enemies within range.
Flare = Deals Massive Fire Damage to all enemies within range with a chance to inflict burn at great MP cost. Damage increased when used on a single target. MP cost is reduced when used in a combo.

The same could be applied to the other spells as well:

Base spell: Deals straight damage
-ra: Deals damage with a chance of DoT
-aga: Deals AoE damage
Ancient: Deals AoE with a chance of DoT. Bonuses for use in a combo. Damage spreads among targets.

Making them combo by either guaranteeing bonuses, reducing MP, or reducing casting time would also be more appropriate in my opinion. Right now Firaga and Thundaga act differently even though their suffixes are the same. Even so, the current system is better than what it was and is tooled for ease of use and adaptability down the road.

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Originally Posted by hrdndv

I totally agree that stoneskin is almost worthless because it only lasts one hit, usually. It should last five minutes like it promises. I also agree that casting Protect every 5 min is annoying as most battles that use Protect last twenty. But overall, FFXIV is better than XI because you can pay more attention to what's happening and don't get so caught up in deciding which spell to cast next. I never saw a battle in FFXI... only saw the spells I was choosing. I played Red Mage and Blue Mage and loved them... but FFXIV is unique, different, and I like what SE has done. I also see SE changing some things as we go along and although some changes are annoying, most changes are alright after I get used to them. I have a motto for this: If Final Fantasy is not annoying, it isn't Final fantasy! lol

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Stoneskin itself isn't ment to last 5 min.. Stoneskin is ment for if you get hit.. you get hit for 0 damage ( unless monster hits you more than the allotted damage it can endure, then and only then it hits you for more than 0 damage.) Once you use up the Damage reduction you receive from Stoneskin, the Effect automatically goes away.. if Stoneskin lasted for 5 min... No body would need to cure at all.....

Yes. But even with Stoneskin active I take damage.

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Originally Posted by hrdndv

Yes. But even with Stoneskin active I take damage.

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Yep and that because it hit you for more than what it gave you to not take damage.. Say the damage stoneskin gives you is 400 damage.. but the monster hit you for 500.. the stoneskin effect will wear off and you will only endure 100 damage from the attack.

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Originally Posted by hrdndv

Yes. But even with Stoneskin active I take damage.

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That's because Stoneskin has a set HP. Once all it's HP is drained then attacks start draining your HP.

I'm not sure if it only works against physical attacks or not.

If you're still taking physical damage, with stoneskin up, and it hasn't worn (meaning you still have the effect active on your status bar) then something is not working correctly.

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

Decent point, but the spells do act differently while the old tiers were just more powerful versions of the base spell. Granted they could've made the tiers act differently too but I prefer changing the name.

What they should've done was have the naming mechanics act the same across the board.

For example:

Fire = Deals Fire Damage
Fira = Deals Fire Damage with a chance to inflict burn (more mp but less initial damage with a greater potential for DoT)
Firaga = Deals Fire Damage to all enemies within range.
Flare = Deals Massive Fire Damage to all enemies within range with a chance to inflict burn at great MP cost. Damage increased when used on a single target. MP cost is reduced when used in a combo.

The same could be applied to the other spells as well:

Base spell: Deals straight damage
-ra: Deals damage with a chance of DoT
-aga: Deals AoE damage
Ancient: Deals AoE with a chance of DoT. Bonuses for use in a combo. Damage spreads among targets.

Making them combo by either guaranteeing bonuses, reducing MP, or reducing casting time would also be more appropriate in my opinion. Right now Firaga and Thundaga act differently even though their suffixes are the same. Even so, the current system is better than what it was and is tooled for ease of use and adaptability down the road.

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i agree with you as far as the meaning behind the way the new spells act. what i am getting at is with the original system you were not just casting lightning over and over because that was your only choice of what to throw at a mob. now if a mob is strong against fire you just throw

lightning
lightning
lightning
chameleon
lightning
red on hate throw freeze
lightning
lightning

before it had tons of options and that made the class more fun to me. throwing the same thing over and over again is just boring. before it'd look more like

bio
dia
banish
scourge
shadowseer
drain
siphon mp
poison
flashfreeze
siphon mp

this is what i liked about the old way the classes played was you had tons of options on what to cast and when to cast it. you could really tell the difference between someone really good at their class and someone that was quite bad. now it's such a generic battle system that the gap between a good player and a bad player is very minor and that's part of the reason content is absolutely getting destroyed as soon as it gets released.

edit: i'm editing this because after reading how it sounds it seems as though i was against the retooling of all the skills and that's not my intention. what i am saying is more of with the original system the class had more versatility so it could have done multiple things at the same time. it made it more of a strategic thinking system as opposed to now it's just hit the next thunder or fire in the combo if it lights up.

i do agree alot of changes were needed and that all the jobs were quite generic and all mashed together. i just wish each class had kept its ability to be 2 things in a party. thm dot/nuke, cnj heal/debuffs, mrd tank/dd, gla tank/dd, pug off tank/dd, archer dd/buffs, lnc party enhancements/dd, gla dd/tank. that would have given each class a secondary role they could have filled inside of the party. right now if you go on a class you do the exact same thing you would do if you were on a job in the party.

the dev staff removed the versatility of the class and then added jobs on top of them. this is the part i dislike.