Dark Knights are an absolute joke and I'm tired of pretending they're not

I personally don't want old DRK, I just want current DRK to be better. The devs have proven with StB that they had no idea where to take HW DRK and they'd clearly just make it even worse from then on.

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

And yet, it's still the most popular tank?

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Considering everyone goes on and on about how busted the damage is? How can it not be popular? Damage is the only thing the player base wants and cares about anyway.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

"Just swap jobs lmao you can play anything in XIV"

I play everything in the game to some extent. I wish I didn't identify with DRK thematically, I wish DRK wasn't the gameplay style that I typically enjoy the most in RPGs (high burst, low sustain, spellsword), I wish DRK didn't use a greatsword, I wish the job quests and artifact/relic gear wasn't good, because then I wouldn't play the job. But those things are all true, so I keep returning to the job after several serious attempts to let go of it since SB. It sucks, okay? It sucks. I'm not happy about it either.

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Same here.
Often took little breaks during expansions (as usual and like any MMo i played) but the first time with shadowbringers i took a break this long.
Play another MMo? bad period unfortunately (WoW going to s*** and GW2 with no expansions planned/icebrood saga for example) or the fact that every single one of your friends is going crazy at the simple mention of any other mmo being good.
Play solo/coop games, get other hobbys (irl or online) but even then at one point when you love one particular MMo or MMos in general you always come back to them, hoping it gets better.

In the end i don't want big damage, life leach, the best possible and OP mitigation possible or any other stuff like that.
I just want the class to have a cohesive kit that doesn't feel like random spells put together having for only link that binds them together the fact that they have red and purple light effects.
(At this point it may be more realistic to ask for half life 3 for 7.0)

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

Considering everyone goes on and on about how busted the damage is? How can it not be popular? Damage is the only thing the player base wants and cares about anyway.

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Maybe. But DRK was popular in ShB even when they were lowest on damage..

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

I personally don't want old DRK, I just want current DRK to be better. The devs have proven with StB that they had no idea where to take HW DRK and they'd clearly just make it even worse from then on.

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I feel like a compromise on this would be fairly easy, the problem with old DRK was spamming Dark Arts between every single skill was annoying and Blood Price made MP a joke of a resource to maintain.
The current system of 3000 MP or a Dark Arts Stack from TBN could honestly still work and let them give us more interesting game play, I just think we need more way to get those Dark Arts stacks than just TBN.

Like if Oblation also just gave a Dark Arts stack like breaking TBN does, then you can buff some of the ogcd skills like AD into what they used to be and not have them be too spammable like they were before.

Entire issue I see is they don't really want to commit to DRK's resource pools anymore, for basically no reason.

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Originally Posted by Halfgeeek

Maybe. But DRK was popular in ShB even when they were lowest on damage..

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Many ppl considered TBN busted on ShB, some here even comfessed they played the job solely for TBN and how good it was the skill justifiyng the overall lack of gameplay and others just played the job bcs lore since DRK was the only thing that looked like the Warrior of Darkness wich is nothing alike at other expansions since being the Wol can be literally anything but being the Wod is just DRK ot eat grass.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

This isn't counting other factors. We can manage our cooldowns properly and still run out if the dps is that slow and the healer can't keep up. I've come down to just hoping TBN comes off cooldown because I was waiting on my other cooldowns. Overall our current kit can get us by in dungeons. However not only have I come back the job and it's not remotely as bad as I remember it or made it out to be, but can safely say it still needs some more or better sustain to be on par with the other tanks in dungeons. At the very least I would like living dead to not be utter garbage because I feel like that's another big reason it falls short.

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Oh don't get me wrong I realize the big issues with DRK. I think I was being a bit too memey/troll with my generalizations lol.

Square deserves all the criticism and shit for DRK being slashed on sustainability and living dead being such a meme (and clearly not thinking of healers lul) for so long. DRK definitely needs QoL changes to feel fine/fun too.

But I definitely think it's becoming a popular sentiment that DRK is unplayable and one mob will wipe you. Seriously one read at the forums and you think DRK is the most broken class ever that you'll die at Sastasha

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

Of course not, I want all tanks to be on par.

I fully expect Raw Intuition's/Bloodwhetting's heals to be cut to 300p before the end of the expansion, but they could probably drop to 200p and still be in that state. 400p per hit in wall-to-walls is absolutely ridiculous, that's like 300% of their HP every 25 sec. And then they have the second-strongest burst heal in the game on top of it at the same CD as Abyssal Drain, and a buff to their healing received?
I don't even think WAR should be a self-healing tank in the first place, because life-draining and thriving on an enemy's suffering is more of a DRK thing anyway (case in point, Abyssal Drain, or the namesakes for skills like Blood Weapon). If anything they should be focused on heavy mitigation and stackable barriers, shrugging off attacks as nothing because mortal wounds tickle and they're just too blood-crazed to die.

But as a player, my priority is seeing DRK's survival go up over seeing WAR's go down. And yes, I would happily trade DRK having DPS-level burst for it.
Plus it's a DRK thread anyway.

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Okay I'm not a tank main at all but I 100% agree with your take on WAR. It doesn't make sense to me that an axe-wielding brute heals himself like crazy (how?) but a knight wielding dark power only focuses on damage. When I first started DRK I assumed it'd be like a vampire - relishing in the blood spilling and draining HP from enemies. I'm sad this is not what we get.

Here's the thing: I've played DRK (along with BRD, DNC and SCH) for about 4 years now, and although I agree with the sentiment about sustainability... I've never had a problem with dungeons pulls? And I care even less about Savage/Ultimate mitigation given a ton of it is magic.

The problem is that the other tanks got their "TBN"s for tools, they're just intensely overpowered, to the point that even TBN looks lackluster now, even though it isn't at all. I'm doing Amazing DPS in Savage, I will in DSW, my mitigation is pretty much never a problem.

There's two problems with DRK now: The fact that BW isn't stacks like Delirium, LD as a whole, and C&S and AD share a CD now. Other than that I really don't mind DRK as it is now. Sure maybe a little more class fantasy (Bring back Scourge!!!) would be nice, but maybe I'm an outlier here. Sure Shadowbringer is just a button you press, but my god that sound is so satisfying.

Honestly, i wouldnt care if the game made a new tank who is terrible at tanking more than 1 pack at a time...
IF...
the tank was actually fun enough to make up for it. or had really fun toys...
(it would also have to be able to handle a large pack occasionally, just to make it balanced for some of the savage fights)

DRK is just waaay too simple to enjoy, and having higher DPS than the other tanks still just isnt enough for me to care. TBN is just a shorter CD version of Thrill to me, and WAR comes with more fun toys. PLD has the lowest DPS but also has fun toys.
(Continuation is mostly GNBs "toy", and thats just not enough for me either. Superbolied could be considered a toy as well, but in best case scenario, its just hallowed, and in worst case scenario, its only a toy because u know ur healer had a heart attack for a second. LD from DRK is like the later, except the healer remains in heart attack mode if they arent a WHM)

Back on topic: In case youre out of every defensible option, there is another option that most overlook, which is actually not too bad. And thats just the soul eater combo. It heals more than you think. While youre DPS will drop, and the chance its what "saves u" will be small, it still could in theory.
(taking into consideration how MUCH dmg u intake, how long it takes to get the heal, how much longer the fight would take doing less dps, and that youre not doing this rotation the whole fight, but just for a tad, when u have no CDs.)
Secondly, while theres an issue to the next thing i suggest, it does have its merits, and thats to use TBN when lower in HP, rather than near higher amounts of HP. Because if youre at full HP and have TBN up, the healer might use the GCD for nukes instead of heals, which in your case, you need the heals. It wont amount to much, just 1-2 GCDs, but its like the idea of spreading out heals over time, rather than burst healing, as its easier on the healer.
Laslty, id say make a macro for LD, something along the lines of "Going to use living dead in the next pull" which tells the healer to just save some resources, in case they planned to use them up before LD is used. all 3 of my suggestions come at the cost of DPS, but ull do more alive than dead, IF you know ur gonna die.