The coming balance changes to jobs

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I said healers are the least played role.As for how i know, outside of parse uploads, just look at the constant "healer in need" for roulettes for some basic understanding of it.

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Wait ... that's your citation? Man if this isn't a strawman argument I don't know what is. DF needs more tank/healers, in other news, do you know the sky is blue and water is wet? If anything, the fact these days you can occasionally sneak in a DPS for adventure in need show it's actually a lot better now than it's used to. In the past, seeing a DPS in need is like a once a year thing. Hell, I dare say if we ever see Adventure in Need skewl toward DPS, the game probably will be having serious problems.

I'm enjoying healing immensely this expack, so much that I now have 4 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 11 at 90, and soon another + 2. And I do all kind of content, I know you complain about healer a lot but I frankly don't see most of it, or not to the degree that you do. Sure if you ask me if there is anything I want to improve, I do. But I would look at them as a matter of inconvenience rather than as grievous problems.

"Pure DPS like SAM and BLM are a bit too stingy, so I'll adjust them in 6.08."

It's the opposite. ...They're the last two jobs that don't leech rDPS from their party and can therefore actually carry on their own merits. Why would every job need a raid buff whose sole purpose is to move numbers around? This will be no more than a light party nerf to BLM and SAM.

"I'm going to make some adjustments to jobs like SAM, BLM, and MNK that don't have enough firepower for how busy they are."

MNK's doing fine. SAM's doing within a fraction of a percent of fine, and BLM within a percent of fine. But, okay, I guess? At least they're among my favorite jobs. Good to be a FotM?

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Wait ... that's your citation? Man if this isn't a strawman argument I don't know what is. DF needs more tank/healers, in other news, do you know the sky is blue and water is wet? If anything, the fact these days you can occasionally sneak in a DPS for adventure in need show it's actually a lot better now than it's used to. In the past, seeing a DPS in need is like a once a year thing.

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1. That's not what makes a strawman argument.

2. DPS have always rivaled Healers for the most common AiN for Alliance Roulettes (as to be expected when they take the place of tanks) and have occasionally been the AiN for Normal Raids, Trials, and Guildhests even during peak hours and, by late night, have been the AiN for any of them. That isn't new; on my Data Center, that portion of time has decreased and Healer AiN has increased in its place. On either DC I use, DPS AiN used to occur a dozen or so times per night, though briefly. Now it's truly rare.

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Hell, I dare say if we ever see Adventure in Need skewl toward DPS, the game probably will be having serious problems.

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Given that there will always be at least as many DPS slots as Tanks and Healers combined, this makes no sense.

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I'm enjoying healing immensely this expack, so much that I now have 4 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 11 at 90, and soon another + 2.

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And to assume that a majority of Healers must share your enjoyment, contrary to all larger scale evidence of polls, posts, and play rates, is fallacious.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Wait ... that's your citation? Man if this isn't a strawman argument I don't know what is. DF needs more tank/healers, in other news, do you know the sky is blue and water is wet? If anything, the fact these days you can occasionally sneak in a DPS for adventure in need show it's actually a lot better now than it's used to. In the past, seeing a DPS in need is like a once a year thing. Hell, I dare say if we ever see Adventure in Need skewl toward DPS, the game probably will be having serious problems.

I'm enjoying healing immensely this expack, so much that I now have 4 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 11 at 90, and soon another + 2. And I do all kind of content, I know you complain about healer a lot but I frankly don't see most of it, or not to the degree that you do. Sure if you ask me if there is anything I want to improve, I do. But I would look at them as a matter of inconvenience rather than as grievous problems.

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I said its one of them,since the person didn't want bancho data. Please read the whole thing next time. Yes DF needs more tanks and healers, aka the two roles coincidentally that seem to get far less attention from the devs. What a coincidence right? Good for you enjoying healer, i enjoy it somewhat too but it doesnt mean theres not problems with the way the role has been for the past few *expansions*, nor does it excuse the fact the devs have usually ignored healers in the past and continue to do so to this day.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Given that there will always be at least as many DPS slots as Tanks and Healers combined, this makes no sense.

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Given there are far more DPS classes than tank and heal combine, if there are not enough people playing them then yes I will consider there are issue there.

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And to assume that a majority of Healers must share your enjoyment, contrary to all larger scale evidence of polls, posts, and play rates, is fallacious.

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And ... do you realize that you comment is equally fallacious? So assume my experience the same as others is fallacious while assuming experience of others must be the same for everyone else is not? Just FYI, 20 years of social media teach me one thing: the loudest is not necessary the largest crow, despite how much they want to believe it themselves and project it into others.

Did I say my experience must be the same for everyone? Or it is wrong for me to state my own experience and say I don't say the same as the complainer? Or you're simply projecting?

And I did say it's not like I don't have a problem with the healer, I'm just ... how do I say it, not being half as dramatic as others?

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Given there are far more DPS classes than tank and heal combine, if there are not enough people playing them then yes I will consider there are issue there.

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The number of classes within a role does not determine how many players are queued across any and all of those classes across that role.

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And ... do you realize that you comment is equally fallacious? So assume my experience the same as others is fallacious while assuming experience of others must be the same for everyone else is not?

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It's a matter of sample size. You are one among millions. The chance you represent the larger population is incredibly small.

They are some 200,000+ among millions. That does not guarantee accurate representation but it's a much better chance than the 1 in millions.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

It's a matter of sample size. You are one among millions. The chance you represent the larger population is incredibly small.

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Again, you're projecting. Did I claim to represent anything? Can a man stating his own experience without it getting twisted into something larger?

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They are some 200,000+ among millions. That does not guarantee accurate representation but it's a much better chance than the 1 in millions.

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Not really. Sample size by itself is an indicative of ... nothingness if it's inherently bias. I teach statistic, and one of the very first thing my student is taught is to realize volunteering sampling is "inherently bias", especially if the question is not now about neutral subject. A lot of time, the only things the people response to the survey represent is themselves, and not an indicative of any population at large.

Something is wrong with "adventurer in need" anyway. If tank is in need and I queue as one, I still wait several minutes. If I then switch to healer, it pops instantly.

Honestly… I’m kind of shocked WHM didn’t get a buff or MP fix based on all the comments about it. Of all 4 healers that I constantly see people talk about from here, to Reddit, to Twitter, WHM is the ultimate meme healer atm. Nothing but complaints/jokes about how bad WHM is.

As for the other 3 healers…

I’m not shocked the other healers haven’t been touched since hardly anyone mentions them and when they do talk about other healers, they unfortunately get drown out by WHM mains asking for MP fixes and what not. This might be an interesting expansion if they keep ignoring WHM lol.

I honestly think DRG could do with a rework at this point. It really feels like it is lacking when compared to its peers. Movement especially is one area where DRG is objectively worse than other melee's. NIN has two charges of Shukuchi for precise movement, plus they get charges back upon using certain mudras. SAM has a backpedal and charge which both execute quickly, same with RPR (which also uses no gauge). MNK now has its new charges which can be used on both allies and enemies alike.
DRG, in comparison, does have Spineshatter dive, Dragonfire dive and Elusive jump for movement; but the first two have potency attached and thus are commonly used for damage, while elusive remains an annoying skill to use. DRG's skills also still have noticeable animation lock and feel laggy compared to its compatriots' skills.

Next how about damage reduction/healing skills. MNK gets Riddle of Earth to reduce damage and Mantra to help with healing. NIN gets Shade Shift to reduce damage. SAM gets Third Eye to reduce damage and get gauge at the same time. RPR gets Arcane Crest to reduce damage and then heal the entire party. DRG? Doesn't get anything.

Then we get to raid utility. DRG (and also NIN) has been doing less damage than a lot of other jobs due to their 'raid utility' which in previous expansions was probably justified. However, in it's current state this really isn't true anymore. Battle Litany has had its cooldown reduced from 3 minutes to 2 minutes - great! Except it's duration has been reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds to compensate. Now overall this is a slight buff (33% shorter cooldown but only 25% reduction), however a lot of other raid buffs are 20 seconds which means that Litany doesn't line up as well anymore. Not to mention that its benefit has always been hard to prove. Did a party member crit while Litany was up? If yes would they have critted anyway if Litany wasn't up? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lastly we get to my biggest grievance - Dragon Sight. This ability is honestly so, so poor. This ability gives the user and one other person a 5% damage buff if they stay within tether range. It is on a 2 minute cooldown. Lets compare it to some other 2 minute raid cooldowns shall we?

MNK - Brotherhood: Gives all party members a 5% damage buff for 15 seconds
RPR - Arcane Circle: Gives all party members a 3% damage buff for 20 seconds
SMN - Searing Light: Gives all party members a 3% damage buff for 30 seconds
RDM - Embolden: Gives all party members a 5% damage buff for 20 seconds

Both MNK and RPR and absolutely dominating DRG in DPS right now so how is it right that they also both offer better raid buffs as well? With both MNK and NIN receiving recent job overhauls, and with SAM and RPR just being newer jobs; DRG is really starting to feel clunky in comparison. You can tell this is still a 2.0 job that hasn't really had any modernizing and it is really starting to show now.