The Problems With Ninja In Endwalker

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Originally Posted by xou_

How likely is it that SE is going to make some big changes to NIN (like replacing/removing Forked Raiju) so it is fun to play again? Do they ever do that or do they just stick to their initial idea? I am asking because I am not sure if I should start leveling a new job or just wait for some patches.

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I have a hard time seeing them remove Raiju.
I do think they will make it so you can still use weapon skills and not lose them tho, they've probably gotten a lot of negative feedback about that.

They do pretty big reworks sometimes, some Jobs have gotten some that changed how they played altogether before.
But I wouldn't count on it for NIN.

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Originally Posted by xou_

How likely is it that SE is going to make some big changes to NIN (like replacing/removing Forked Raiju) so it is fun to play again? Do they ever do that or do they just stick to their initial idea? I am asking because I am not sure if I should start leveling a new job or just wait for some patches.

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Pretty close to zero, I would guess.

Also - and I know that this is a foreign concept on the internet - not everyone agrees with you that NIN isn't fun to play now :O

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I have a hard time seeing them remove Raiju.
I do think they will make it so you can still use weapon skills and not lose them tho, they've probably gotten a lot of negative feedback about that.

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Just began leveling ninja after RPR and SMN, saw on the tooltip that only melee weaponskill break Raiju, so could we use Phantom Kamaitachi and Throwing Dagger without losing the stack ? or it's a mistranslation (most people say all weaponskill break the stack) ? can't test right now since i'm only 81.

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Originally Posted by Raidoser

Just began leveling ninja after RPR and SMN, saw on the tooltip that only melee weaponskill break Raiju, so could we use Phantom Kamaitachi and Throwing Dagger without losing the stack ? or it's a mistranslation (most people say all weaponskill break the stack) ? can't test right now since i'm only 81.

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You can use stuff like Bhavacakra ( or however it's spelled ) and Dream Within a Dream too.
Basically for simplicites sake, you can't do your 1 2 3 combo.

Ok, having played a bit with raiju at 90 (including just clearing the first EX in PF), I like raiju a lot more than I did when I first got it. I really think that my initial distaste of it had a lot to do with it being new and very different, all new fights, and some new keybinds given the changes in abilities. Perhaps I'll say more later, but I may be a convert on chido—I mean, raiju.

Now, let's get to the bigger issue with NIN: let me glam a single dagger with the off hand empty!

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Originally Posted by SleepyNeko

It is a forced double gap closer. This is worst that it sounds because your can't attack when bound and there is animation lock which removes some of your ability to dodge mech while using it

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I really think this is a fairly one-sided way of looking at it and more a fault of the player than the skill.
The animation lock is VERY short and if you get hit by something because of it it's because you're being too bold and greedy with your damage.
There is no mechanic in the game that will happen so quickly that you can't react to it because of this animation lock.

The ability re-engage is rly good imo and feels great.
I fail to see why it being a gap closer is a negative NIN is a melee you should be standing in melee to begin with and like I said the lock isn't long enough to be an actual problem.
And at range you're only stronger now because your re-engage deals damage.

Edit: In regards to not being able to use it while bound I dunno if that's true I haven't tried it yet.
But if it's true then I do think that you should be able to so long as you're in range.

I'll give you too that you do need to be more decisive as to when you're disengaging since it's a gap closer so you can't just hit it while running in the other direction but I think the damage combined with re-engage is worth it.
I'd rly hate to lose it tho and I think it'd be too cluttered with extra '' non-gap closer '' versions.
I think it's just a case of needing to adapt and use the tool appropriately.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

You can use stuff like Bhavacakra ( or however it's spelled ) and Dream Within a Dream too.
Basically for simplicites sake, you can't do your 1 2 3 combo.

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Then i don't see why people are complaining about Raiju stacks, if you can't use them because there is a mechanic stopping you going melee it also mean you can't use melee weaponskill so you just use throwing dagger while waiting to use your Raiju stacks.
I mean throwing dagger no longer break combo so we don't lose shukiho passive when using it (combo also last 30 sec now) and the melee/ranged potency of Bunshin is the same (160 potency).
maybe i will think differently when i will have it but for the moment the complaints look a lot like when TCJ was introduced in stormblood.

NIN definitely needs buffs, done a lot of testing and yeah... Damage is low.

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Originally Posted by Raidoser

Then i don't see why people are complaining about Raiju stacks, if you can't use them because there is a mechanic stopping you going melee it also mean you can't use melee weaponskill so you just use throwing dagger while waiting to use your Raiju stacks.
I mean throwing dagger no longer break combo so we don't lose shukiho passive when using it (combo also last 30 sec now) and the melee/ranged potency of Bunshin is the same (160 potency).
maybe i will think differently when i will have it but for the moment the complaints look a lot like when TCJ was introduced in stormblood.

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Your regular weaponskills work as long as you are in within maximum melee range and allow you to move while attacking. So for example if a boss uses a point blank aoe that's about as large as max melee range that would allow a melee player to continue attacking EXCEPT with Raiju. Another example would be a mechanic where your party first needs to stack and then spread, or where you for some other reason need to be able to evade quickly, the animation lock on Raiju can make the difference between dodging or not. Both of these issues are the exact same that dragoons have to deal with when using jumps but there is one last major difference between DRG jumps and Raiju; that Raiju is both on the GCD as a weaponskill and that Raiju is lost if not used immediately. So where you can simply choose to delay your DRG jumps a few seconds (not optimal but also not a giant loss) while continuing your regular rotations, these same situations cause lvl 90 NIN to grind to a complete halt. It's incredibly frustrating to be within max melee range but still have to use throwing daggers because Raiju would move you out of your safe spot and does not tolerate you using any other melee weaponskill until you have burnt through all 6 stacks of Raiju.
And as a small bonus, a certain currently relevant trial fight (both normal and extreme mode) does include quite a few times where your character is temporarily bound. This also prevents you from using Raiju even though you are within melee range, due to it being a gap closer. It's not very fun.

If Raiju was changed to either not drop off when using melee weaponskills or to not be a gap closer (preferably the first option) then that would make a world of difference in how enjoyable NIN is to play.

Seems like a pretty simple fix to be honest. I’m hopeful it’ll happen within the next patch/patches.