Can we please put Coils of Bahamut in normal raid roulette?

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

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While I understand your approach you also have to take into consideration that of all the things your FC mates could have picked to do, they had an interest in special for Coils and I'm assuming were willing to sit through as many wipes necessary in order to figure out the mechanics and get their clears. It is also worth mentioning that this was more than likely a one time experience, since if you decided to revisit those fights with them again you would still retain the same assigned spots, coordination and execution of skills.

Now let's jump into the hypothetical setting of you joining your raid roulette for a daily or weekly clear for either money, experience in a job you don't play often or tomestones, and have to go through that all over again. The average FF player don't have the patience nor the time to join a roulette and gamble between a 15 minutes or a 55 minutes run, unless it's an alliance roulette, and even then there's people that purposely cheese the system with lower than required ilvls in order to get 50 alliances.
You're running the risk of picking up a job you're not very good at and end up on Savage/Extreme difficulty level content.
Yes, I do agree with you that the first and second set of Coils aren't the boogeyman they once were. But just thinking about T9 alone is enough to get me skeptical. Take a quick look at the Tales from Duty Finder thread and everything will make sense.

Coil is on a different level of punishing. While you can do Eden etc in 1-3 pulls with a full blind team. You will not be able to get twintania nael or some of the other turns.

The markers are wrong as they never got the "please stack " symbol etc.

This is the equivalent of asking for ex trials in trial roulette, players will start fishing for easy ones at that point. Thats what happens in mentor roulette already.

I am very sure if your party was to zone in on nael ... before the cs ends ppl are out.

Why? Because if they make some food ... craft in game ... or gather for 30 min then requeue and get a easy raid their done faster then the raid they dropped.

As long as the penalty is 30 ppl will fish and even if it was hours ppl would do it before they log out.

After coil they started having fights build around 1-3 mechanics ... coil fights have way way more, by now i doubt theres too many ppl who even have hands on snyc experience with it anyway.

So if you want raid roulette to die ... add coil

Also note to the OP, this is a quote from you about Hades EX:

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

It definitely is a challenge. Haven't cleared it but am getting closer and closer every time. Most parties I run into just can't coordinate the ice pushback at big hades and then give up. :(

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Hades EX is, to me, easier than any Savage this game has to offer. I don't think you'd be very happy about getting Coils in your roulettes because even if you're a decent player, the average duty finder pugs still struggle to do Starboard/Larboard correctly.

I would never advocate to have the Coils of Bahamut into normal raid roulette, but what is confusing me is people are saying it was on par with savage. Was it? I mean when I was a baby to the game I cleared all of them minus Phoenix. I can't imagine... this to be true I was so... awful... I cannot imagine the untold hardships my dumb ass caused, that being said I do not want that hardship placed on me by having them in normal raid roulette!!!

I wish there was a way to get people to do this content more, though. Iirc during the end of Heavensward they were desirable to farm for allagan items for crafting/gathering gear. Perhaps they should do something like that again.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

I would never advocate to have the Coils of Bahamut into normal raid roulette, but what is confusing me is people are saying it was on par with savage. Was it?

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Sort of yes, sort of no. Coils is the reason why we have Savage in the first place. The difficulty levels of it were definitely higher than Ex Primals, which are already things the majority of the playerbase won't/can't do, but it had canon plot tied to it. So from HW and onwards SE decided to split raids into Normal (story) mode and Savage (challenge) mode. Some Coils are easier than Alex/Omega/Eden, some can still be quite the challenge to do sync up to this day. It all depends on player skill, and we all know the majority of the playerbase either don't have it, or have potential to get there but don't wanna go through the amount of effort required in order to achieve it.

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Originally Posted by DevilsDontFly

still struggle to do Starboard/Larboard correctly.

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To be fair, calling it Starboard and Larboard was silly. Left Wave Cannon and Right Wave Cannon would have been better.
If I get Omega, I have to quickly look up Star and Lar because I haven't done the fight in awhile and my nautical knowledge is non-existent.

It'd be a nice reveal if it turned out one of the devs was slowly working on some normal mode versions in their spare time. It's a shame the story goes unseen by so many people.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

To be fair, calling it Starboard and Larboard was silly. Left Wave Cannon and Right Wave Cannon would have been better.
If I get Omega, I have to quickly look up Star and Lar because I haven't done the fight in awhile and my nautical knowledge is non-existent.

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it's one of the few aoes which tell you which direction it will hit, so if people can't figure it outy, they can't evade any aoe.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

The fact I'm trying to point out which is the major flaw of this counter argument is that EQUALLY PUNISHING mechanics or more consistently punishing mechanics exist in current normal raids ALREADY. No one in this entire thread has tried to refute that point and quite literally can not.

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Come back to me when you do sync'd coils, no echo, with 12+ deaths with 6 deaths happening at once forcing lb3 heal.

The above was a titan nm run i had and we cleared because me+ random pug mt knew what to do and we managed to keep it going, since we didn't wipe no echo(heck don't think echo in there right now anyway), dps was abysmal seeing 4 buggy transformation and, yet still cleared in a 1 shot.

That will not happen with coils which all have hard enrages(exclude T3), every death is far more punishing to the group in coils than any nm raids, current nm raids allow obscene death counts and rezzes that it makes you want to go "does it ever end?".

T1, T2, T4, T6, T7 and T8 all received substantial mechanical nerfs in ARR that made them possible to clear using the Duty Finder. I think it'd be fair for Square Enix to simply finish the job and nerf the remaining coil fights to a mechanical level where they can actually be cleared through the DF as well. While these were very much "Savage" level at their inception, it's been almost 5 years since Coils were relevant raids. At this point practically nobody is running any of the Coil raids as a savage-level challenge, and it'd be more beneficial to the game if people could run these raids for their important storyline as soon as they hit level 50 without needing to beg for overlevelled randos to carry them through the raids.

T3 might need to be removed from the game if the remaining of Coil is to be made clearable using DF and placed in the 8 person raid roulette though, it's a weird gimmick jumping puzzle with nearly no actual fighting and no tomestone or loot rewards.