Pulling the bosses In dungeons as DPS a thing now?

Some DPS think tanks need to learn their place. Well, we feel the same way towards them. Our job is to pull foes, hold them, use some CDs if needed, and not stand in the stupid. Their job is to kill said foes, and not stand in the stupid. If they pull off of a tank, that's the tank's fault. Many DPS will not directly attack what the tank is specifically attacking, especially in large packs. We understand this. Some of us don't like it when they do that, but we should easily be able to hold a large pack without someone pulling off of us. But if they pull a pack way ahead of the group that the tank hasn't touched yet, that's a different story.

They have long queues. They want to clear faster, this I get. But pissing off the tank, and sometimes the healer, is not the best way to do that. Everyone has their role in a party setting. Follow that and the experience is smooth.

If anyone ever worked as a team leader in the real life job, then he or she could 100% relate to tanking job in this game, its literally the same.
You cant blame or call other underperforming, you have to adjust your run (production line) to the people you work with. You cant stress others, you have to listen to complaints, you cant force down on someone to do x thing better than he could.
You need to have "know how" and organise everything. If something goes bad there is you to blame.
If you cant do these things if you have no nerves then you are not made for the job.

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Originally Posted by Samuraijake

The tanks have the right to the pace of pulls due to the fact that tanks have to keep track of defensive cds which determine what or how much they can pull...this shouldnt be news to anyone and certainly not dps. DPS dont have to interact with mobs outside of spamming your rotations (god forbid most dps throw a stun out there just to help out) ... so its selfish when they decide to pull anything just so they dont lose their precious little dps buffs. Boss positioning is also a thing which is a duty held by a tank... so a dps pulling a boss in some odd direction instantly disrupts that.Its also rude if you've ever played any mmo ever i.e. huntards that aggro stuff we dont need.

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Let us be real, outside of a few situation in dungeons especially boss fight for dungeons if the healer and or dps are on point we probably could get away without having to pop a single defensive cool down, and even maybe for larger pulls--maybe not so much wall-to-wall-- if the tank is able to hold aggro which is nearly impossible to not do at this point, healer and dps play a more active role in how the run will go. In dungeon content we are not as important as people try to make us seem.

While I am not trying to say the tank is useless, I still stand by the mindset that every role plays a role into how smooth a run goes, but personally as tank I value the DPS and heals far more so above myself. Especially in ShB when it comes to large pulls DPS is the factor I value most, not to say the healer is not important, but even with a great healer if the dps is not on point lager pulls feel as if they are a drain on my very soul.

Part of the reason I stopped tanking was the utter disrespect tanks get from the other roles often, its just baffling.

tanks in ffxiv have more fragile egos then tanks in the most other mmos i played, and thats saying something
"wowie that dude pulled that dungeon boss that is gonna fall over, better turn off tank stance instead saying something (if it really bothers you) and then upload the conversation to the forums"
you showed him my man, constructive and efficient

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

Actually nice to see people starting to kick tanks who think like that. Like already stated, self entitlement at its finest!

Oh, and DPS have an easy ride? Are you kidding? Tanking now is by far the easiest and most mind-numbing role of them all in a Dungeon. If anything, YOU should be thanking the DPS for burning things down quickly for you, while all you have to do is press one button for aggro and one button for CDs. SMH.

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Tbh any role, perhaps except healer, is mind numbing during mob pulls. Its just aoe spam city untill everything is dead. I mean yeah dps do press some other buttons but really, its just aoe spam... just like how tank is aoe spamming and pressing few additional buttons now and then. While I do understand that you might have been offended by the other tank saying that DPS gets an easy ride but I don't think that warrants insulting all of the tanks and calling our role 'brain-dead' during mob pulls.

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

tanks in ffxiv have more fragile egos then tanks in the most other mmos i played, and thats saying something
"wowie that dude pulled that dungeon boss that is gonna fall over, better turn off tank stance instead saying something (if it really bothers you) and then upload the conversation to the forums"
you showed him my man, constructive and efficient

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I think it has less to do with ego than just simple respect.

When I roll a DPS job, usually a dragoon or red mage, I adhere to a certain party etiquette. My job is to kill whatever the tank pulls, and to not stand in the stupid. I also constantly check the enmity meters. If I'm close to pulling a foe away from the tank, I switch to another target, no complaints. If there's only one target, then git-gud tank. While my job is to kill a target, another of my responsibilities is to ensure I'm not the one taking a swing to the face. I can definitely take the hit, even in non-savage content, but that's a little more healing the healer has to do instead of chucking another broil/malefic/stone at the baddies. The healer's job is to make sure, with reason, that the party doesn't die. Barring fools standing in the stupid, his/her primary task is to keep us standing. However, throwing out an attacking skill is all the more helpful if damage-intake is within controllable levels.

A damage-dealer's job is to kill things, not face-pulling a pack of things the tank isn't currently dealing with. And if they do, it would be nice to voice it out ahead of time. The tank knows how much the tank can handle. I can see their gear, but I don't know their ping; it could be less than favorable for all I know. The tank could be running on a potato and I wouldn't be the wiser. Why would I make their job harder? That makes no sense. Why they queued into a dungeon with med-high ping is anyone's guess, but I'm not about to make their job harder if I can help it. If the tank is voted out for whatever the reason, that's more waiting I have to do until we get a replacement. Unless the tank is truly terrible, and I mean going through the whole encounter with a vulnerability stack, then I'll let them do their job without interference.

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Originally Posted by Lannybaby

<Divisiveness between roles>

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Easy fix:
- Play multiple roles.
- Optimize for clear speed, not just your own convenience or ego.
- Voila, you now see the same about these concerns.

But one of the first things you'd realize running daily roulettes as a tank after having briefly played more than a single DPS or Healer is that, where the DPS are decent, they generally tend to be more on the right side of these arguments than any tank-only players.

And, if you're actively slowing a run just to slake an arbitrary need for respect paid, that is ego.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Easy fix:
- Play multiple roles.
- Optimize for clear speed, not just your own convenience or ego.
- Voila, you now see the same about these concerns.

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- Already done. But everyone has their mains, and mains are usually tied to one role.
- So don't play for fun, just focus on clearing. Got it... no thanks.
- Still don't see it.

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Originally Posted by Lannybaby

- Already done. But everyone has their mains, and mains are usually tied to one role.
- So don't play for fun, just focus on clearing. Got it... no thanks.
- Still don't see it.

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All people are saying is if three others want a tank to speed up they should speed up, or leave. For some reason tank and to a degree healer feel they get the final say in what a group does.