No, I didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
You clearly are saying that there is a problem with unsynced running of it because the Blue Mage will be just a dead weight. If there is no problem, you wouldn't have used this argument against the job in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
I never said about you have problem unsyncing anything else. Just where it is relevant for Blue Mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
Only here you are saying that the problem is supposed to be that the Blue Mage himself may feel troubled by having to unsync run it to learn the skill. But you know what?! A blue mage is not a dead weight to himself. He's not a dead weight if he's in a content that is properly leveled to him. So yeah, this is not what you said before.
I'm going off entirely what you DID say. It's the exact opposite of making stuff up. I did not try to read between the lines and make up stuff. If you are troubled by it, write out your arguments clearly the first time around.
You are again making assumptions. Except for the few high-level bosses, all other skills are likely to be available from overworld or stuff that lvl50 can solo unsynced anyway. As for the high level bosses, it may be soloable as well, depending on the skill choices available. Big Guard, White Wind, that stun, Bad Breath, all of these skills are not specified. Yes, I do not expect Blue Mage to be able to solo Shiva, Ramuh etc at lvl50. Certainly not the extreme versions. Titan is unsoloable in hard mode since I don't think it's possible to kill him before he uses that Stone Prison and in Extreme Mode it takes too long to burst and deals too much damage for a lvl50 to realistically survive it, even if overpowered. But for all we know, Blue Mage may have Angel Whisper with its traditional re-raise which could count to save a wipe. So even that would be no problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
Do you notice the "for all we know" part there?! There is a lot of possibilities. This class does have potential to be able to solo ANYTHING in the game. Because Blue Mage may have access to skills that are just that broken...even aside the Lvl5 Death or Roulette that would be just unfun, but good for farming. We know he can stun a primal. We don't know whether that stun is spammable, whether it's long, whether opponent builds resistance to it, whether its costs exceeds the Blue Mages ability to regenerate mana etc. We don't know whether Bad Breath will work fully on all bosses...while it's a ridiculously broken skill if it will. That's a lot we don't know that may end up either way.
Blue Mage might actually be a good thing.
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11-20-2018, 11:28 PMkikix12
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11-21-2018, 01:17 AMZetsumei_Tsunarashi
Just want to also agree with OP that the idea of "limited" jobs in XIV seems wrong at first but the more I think about it, I actually think it's a good idea.
Puppet master was my favorite job in XI and I always hoped for it to be implemented here in some form as well. So of course when I heard it mentioned as a possible future "limited" job, my reaction was about the same as the blue mage reaction amongst the community right now.
After thinking about it though, I realized that while my favorite job may not be able to participate in the usual content, it opens the way for much more interesting and engaging content instead, since it wouldn't have to follow the same rules as the rest of the game. Sure maybe it would be confined to it's own solo bubble universe but I dont think that would take away from my enjoyment of playing the class, as long as theres enough cool and fun things to do.
Right now, we simply just dont have enough information to really determine whether or not blue mage will in fact have enough things to do on it's own to be viable content outside of the usual dungeons, trials, raids, etc.
I think the biggest question is what will the endgame look like for blue mage ? After you've collected all the skills and beaten the masked carnival, then what ? I think we really should be asking this question above all others. -
11-21-2018, 02:01 AMSeraphorAll good points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi
Being a job, Blie Mage will require updates just like any other job.
Its already going to get updstes through 5.0, but then when 6.0 hits it will need updating again like any other job.
If you're thinking of it as unique side content, its future-proof side content, unlike Diadem/Eureka that serve their purpose and are then forgotten.
After you've completed Masked Carnivale, then what? Like everything else, like raiding, you wait for the next update. -
11-21-2018, 02:19 AMElerusMaybe, but that in and of itself is a problem. With every other class in this game the second SE adds a new trial, dungeon, or raid I've got new content for every iteration. I can engage with the new content with multiple classes. Square does not have to touch my class or provide special curated content for there to be new things to do with it. As an added bonus I can then take this class and engage in whatever other new content may be available in said patch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
Blue Mage will not have this luxury. Without a consistent update and new content pattern for JUST this "limited job" it will quickly be relegated to the dust bin.
Maybe Square will surprise me and there will be regular content updates for Blue Mage forever. However, I've got to be honest with myself and - look at their track record - that seems . . . unlikely. -
11-21-2018, 02:29 AMMelichoir
Far as I know, they will raise level cap (and likely new monster skills and stuff to do) every large content patch. Thats the same scheduling as current classes.
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11-21-2018, 02:34 AMKallera
What is BLU's endgame? That is the question that needs be asked. Because one instance does not make an endgame, and you are separated from other players, possibly from even progressing your character. If we can't take BLU to anywhere near endgame, what IS its endgame?
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11-21-2018, 02:45 AMNarielMask Carnival and its all, Blue mage is a colusseum mini-game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallera
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11-21-2018, 02:56 AMThayos
Here's the biggest problem, imo... anything that doesn't contribute to endgame in an MMO is basically a minigame. And minigames are generally not popular. They die quickly, because why bother? They're meaningless.
That said... it's incredibly possible that if SE goes all-in with these limited jobs -- and perhaps rebrands them as something other than "limited" (huge mistake on their part) -- that we could have two branches of endgame in this game. We could have traditional, trinity-based endgame, and then we could have another branch of raiding geared more toward unconventional jobs like blu. Think the difference between FFXIV and Guild Wars 2. And that's actually pretty exciting, because I'm not aware of any other MMO that effectively caters to two completely different raid audiences in a way that would be that thorough.
We'll have to see what SE does. I just hope the devs don't get gun shy. They've got to go all in or not at all. Go big, or go home. -
11-21-2018, 02:59 AMKalleraQuote:
Originally Posted by Nariel
If that's it then, there isn't much reason to play it. My friends do not benefit from BLU, except on mobs in an overworld they have already outleveled to triviality,
And I don't benefit from BLU, because it doesn't push towards content that is current.
And getting the skills will lilely involve going to eureka or diadem, giving a false impression that I actually like that content. -
11-21-2018, 03:00 AMMelichoirCurrently, Blue mage can participate in Battle content. Just not current content. So this is a silly point to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
What does Fishing have to do with End game raids? While crafted gear is a definite avenue for end game raids (and typically BiS), gathering itself is only connected to end game raiding by the virtue crafters need materials. But not everything a crafter does is for raiding, which means that Gathering isnt always done for the sake of raid. And to reiterate - Not everything has to be done for teh sake of End Game Raiding. There are crafters who dont craft end game raid gear. And thats fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
Just because there is an outrage mob, doesnt mean their position is correct. Most of us "Defending" SE are thinking about why they made a design choice and trying to understand it from what we have in the game. A lot of the outrage Ive seen personally see the choice they made as some personal slight, and as complete incompetance, but the only half decent arguments they can come up with is "Its an MMO" and "Just dumb it down so I can play it in current end game content." The latter point is really bothersome, because its pretty much saying "I care more about the name of the class, and not the idea of it.". Or more simply, this argument sounds more like people just want to play something named Blue Mage, and not the iteration of it thats been asked for time and time again on places like these forums or reddit.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
This is an important point because people are getting upset at the idea they cant raid with it, rather than getting excited theyll get to play BLU in FFXIV. And to nip the "I want to just play with friends!" argument in the bud, you still can. You just cant do it on BLU for end game content. Cause realistically speaking, do you think people would be totally cool with BLU if it played 100% exactly like BLM, except instead of auto learning your skills or doing a class quest, you go out and find a monster and have learn its ability? That is BLU in teh very basic barebones format, and many people I feel would not be satisfied with this result in the end. A week of excitement before people catch on and are like "Wait a second, this is a reskinned caster."
Probably will actually have fun. I wasnt lookign forward to BLU, but its more stuff for me to do so Ill give it a try and make a solid judgement of how good/bad it is then. Sucks that people are so bitter that theyre more concerned with outrage and choosing to be upset rather than just taking a hot minute and thinking things through and just holding reservations till we actually get to play it.Quote:
Originally Posted by whiskeybravo
Cause seriously, A lot of us who are talking about this in "Defense of SE" are merely saying that logically it would be incredibly hard to balance without some major caveats, and that "Hey, let it come out and see what happens." Where as the other side is 'losing it' and behaving like this is some great travesty that must be rectified. Just wait till it comes out and then make judgements. If its pure suck, then by all means, lay it out detail by detail and yell at SE to fix it.