[Spoilers] The Patch 4.2 Discussion and Speculation Thread!

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Originally Posted by M0rty

Just a small doubt I have. Are the other FF bosses you fight tied to the lore(wibbly wobbly timey wimey thingy) or is just "Here's Exdeath"?

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Depends on what you mean "tied to the lore." The previous Omega raid bosses were legends, myths, and faerie tales in the XIV universe made manifest by Omega. They just happened to be enemies from V.

I fully expect this to be something like that in Sigmascape as well. Other bosses from previous FF like Goddess, Fiend and Demon are a little more intricately woven as gods of Meracydia. It varies, really.

Also I'm surprised with how many people think a character named Brutus is going to betray us and not his Emperor...

I think people are a bit too quick to rule out the possibility that Varis wants an alliance. After all the Scions have resources (such as the WoL) that he doesn't. Even Regula made a point of people with the echo being important. That doesn't mean he is trustworthy or his endgame co-insides with ours but he seems to see the Eikons as a major threat. A couple of border provinces are probably low on his list of things that are important compared to that. Its also worth noting that the emissary is here investigating if an alliance is feasible. There is no way the Emperor would come to a hostile country in person.

I think this is probably going to be the beginnings of our 'in' when it comes to traveling to Garlemald. A strong dose of distrust all around is probably for the best because we will almost certainly be heading into a political quagmire. However I think that in this case Varis is actually serious in seeking an alliance. He might stab us in the back later if he feels it is in the interests of Garlemald to do so but for now I think he desires our resources. After all do remember he could have easily let Zenos of the leash at any time. If Zenos had permission to invade Eorzea we quite likely would have had a very different outcome to the war.

Varis' primary concern appears to be finding some way to put an end to the Eikon threat once and for all. His reasoning for this, in his words, is due to how they threaten the very life of the 'Star' - which refers to Hydaelyn itself. This, at least, aligns with the goal of the Warrior of Light and many of his allies. Elidibus whispering in Varis' ears is an additional complication, certainly, though given that Varis is supposedly a master tactician it isn't unreasonable to assume that he wishes to explore multiple options.

The Ambassador being Yotsuyu's cousin is an additional complication. Could she, after regaining her memories, snap and take him out in a fit of rage? That would certainly complicate things - especially if he genuinely approached with pure intentions. Is he the same individual standing in the throne room and clenching his fist? I have my doubts, since it's likely he is largely based in the Far East.

I cannot help but note that there is a brief scene in the trailer where the Warrior of Light is crouching down and another figure clad in armour from head to toe approaches him. Is that the figure from the throne room, perhaps? Someone who genuinely wants to warn the Warrior of Light that there is trouble brewing in their homeland.

As far as distrust towards Garlemald is concerned, I feel like a lot of it is based around key characters simply not understanding Garlemald's situation or its history. Let's not forget that they themselves have had most of their recent problems solved by the convenient 'quick fix' that is the Warrior of Light. Not everybody has had that luxury, thus their methods to deal with issues have differed. Garlemald's story is, ultimately, going to have to lead to Pureblood Garleans being free of persecution based on their inability to wield aether...as well as an adjustment to Garlemald's foreign policy. As always, it comes down to nuances.

As a random aside, I can't help but wonder if the bosses in Omega are influenced by Nero having meddled with Omega back when it was stationed in Carteneau. After all, I believe at least one of the first bosses was associated with a Garlean tale. The Phantom Train and Kefka seem like they would be prime candidates to also fit Garlean tales, too.

While I don't have much to add or counter at this moment in time, I'd like to throw something into the pot. We all seem to be considering just how long Varis can be trusted, and we all seem to be in agreement that it's at least today (think Elidibus during the Warring Triad arc). If this alliance were to be a longer-running thing, and our "in" to Garlemald...

From a storytelling perspective, is the Resonance arc now wasted time on Varis's part? (If he's allying with Eorzea's Echo-blessed anyway, what was the point? To prove primal enslavement was legit? Would we even do that?) Varis and Elidibus were speaking of sacrificing his son on the laboratory table to raise an empire that would dominate the world. Imperial ambitions, technological progress, Ascian lip service, Scion alliance. How do we reconcile all of these to the same end?

If Eorzea vs. Garlemald isn't how Elidibus is moving towards the next Rejoining (which seemed reasonable given that he's now moved the Eorzeans and Garleans onto more equitable footing against one another) ... what is? Assuming Varis's seeming contradictions are not an attempt to out-maneuver the Emissary, what are they playing at?

If we look at all the puzzle pieces rather than only the batch that just arrived, fewer interpretations make sense as a narrative...

/hand to chin

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

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If Varis sees Zenos as a failed experiment it could be that he is looking at this option because the Garleans own attempts to create echo users with the Resonant has been rather unreliable. Zenos was pretty nuts and Fordola, while not insane, has some pretty problematic side effects. If Varis is working to a time frame he might see it as necessary at this point to seek the aid of natural echo users as he might not feel that Resonant are stable enough to be relied on. After all Regula claimed that Garlemald was giving up on the Allagan tech to imprison the Eikons in Azys Lla because of how unreliable it is.

Of course I suspect it isn't going to be so simple. However just as with Regula, I can very well see a situation where Varis has a compelling argument on why we should work together. It is very possible he knows things that we don't right now.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As a random aside, I can't help but wonder if the bosses in Omega are influenced by Nero having meddled with Omega back when it was stationed in Carteneau. After all, I believe at least one of the first bosses was associated with a Garlean tale. The Phantom Train and Kefka seem like they would be prime candidates to also fit Garlean tales, too.

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Halicarnassus is based on a Garlean folktale that Nero happens to be aware of. The text in her instance summary says she's an antagonist from a classical novel where she rules as the Queen of Dimension Castle. Exdeath's instance summary says he's a villain from an ancient legend and the legend said he is an evil tree that takes the form of a dark mage. Whether or not that is Garlean or not is never specified. Alte Roit and Catastrophe's origins aren't specified anywhere as far as I can tell.

As far as I could tell, Nero has been researching Omega for quite a while by the time he brings it up as a way to combat Shinryu. He's just never turned it on until then. It's anyone's guess as to whether Omega was checking him out the whole time, but I can certainly buy that Nero is the person who's been around Omega the most in "recent" times.

I think Varis is extending an olive branch to the WoL since Zenos' Resonance project failed. Or, not so much failed, but left Varis with no control over people who have the Resonance (as far as we've seen anyway). If it had worked and Zenos had overcome us, then Varis would have had his fake-Echo users to work with (pressure into) taking down whatever eikons there are around. Instead, we're pretty much free of his direct power/influence and that's a situation he probably doesn't want to continue. At least until he manages to get another Resonant up and running...

Speaking of talking down eikons... what eikons/primals are around that Varis is worried about? This isn't like the Warring Triad where Theoden all but said he was absorbing existing primals' power at the end of the expansion and then we spent the reset of the patches dealing with them. 'Cause given the characterization the Scions and WoL have been given so far, we'd probably figure out a way to get to any primal that happened to be out regardless of who the primal is directly threatening. It's not like we need alliances in place to have reason to do that.

I'm thinking that the whole alliance Varis is proposing will be framed like a hypothetical for when a primal is summoned. With the goal that when a primal is summoned someplace that isn't in Garlemald, Varis gets to have some sort of influence on how the Scions deal with the situation. Probably in exchange for not giving the Scions trouble if they have to deal with a primal that is in Garlemald. With lots of fine print for both situations. Having influence on what the WoL can get up to would be great for him.

The other scenario I could see is that there's a lot of primal summoning going on that the Scions don't know about because it's in Garlean territory. And Varis needs somebody to deal with it. And with the Resonance project in shambles, he's run out of options. How the Scions could figure out if he isn't lying is up for debate (his censorship working against him). And who knows what he would do after the situation is dealt with... Thing is, there's no reason the Scions and WoL wouldn't want to deal with that kind of situation even if it was a bad deal.

Also, I don't think the Four Lords are primals from what we've seen of them so far. So I don't think whatever alliance Varis is proposing is about dealing with them.

Speaking of looking at all the puzzle peices and not just the ones we just got, I wonder what the Garlean NCPs on the Prima Vista will think about all this. The entire reason they are in Kugane is because they're running from Varis (well, his policies). I'll be very interested to see if their dialogue changes at all for this patch.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

More to the point, I'm going to be extremely skeptical of any offers of alliance - if Varis were really interested in such an arrangement, he'd show up personally instead of sending a dignitary. I'm not against such a thing, but... we'd need to be treading on even ground with him, and not personally dealing with the protagonists strongly suggests he still considers them beneath him. You can't go into an even arrangement with someone who doesn't treat you like an equal.

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To be fair, Asahi is a plenipotentiary ambassador, which means he is absolutely qualified to speak to us on Varis's behalf. As in, any decisions he makes regarding us can be officially assumed to be what Varis would have made if he was present.

(In practice, it obviously varies. But generally a plenipotentiary authority who abuses that authority for personal gain often loses said authority once the boss finds out.)

So if Asahi was indeed sent by Varis (as opposed to, say, the Garlean Senate), it is indeed a sign that Varis respects us enough to send someone of that level of authority.

This does raise the question of why Varis chose to personally give us an ultimatum about Beast Tribe genocide back in HW, but that was a deeply weird decision on his part, and I'd be interested to know more.

Also, check Asahi's apparent introduction in the trailer:

https://i.imgur.com/yZp60ta.jpg

The positioning and posture of the two people behind him suggests that they are his subordinates. The one on the right is an Elezen, while the one on the left is a Pureblood Garlean.

So Asahi managed to prove himself enough to have plenipotentiary power, and also achieve the title of "sas". Which we've only seen one other non-pureblood character have prior, and we had all speculated that it was only Gaius's firm belief in meritocracy that Rhitatyn got that far.

TL;DR I don't think Varis sending Asahi is a sign of disrespect. He might be playing a very deep game that even Asahi doesn't know, but just because Varis doesn't come meet us himself doesn't mean the person he sends is just a lackey.

With so much Garlean politics can we finally conclude that 5.0 will take us to Ilsabard?

I would wait to see exactly how 4.2 pans out but I think the likelihood that we will be traveling into Ilsabard in 5.0 is growing much higher. I also think the likelihood we will be doing it without an army is much higher too. I think its almost certain that next expansion will have a strong focus on internal tensions and factions of Garlemald rather than us vs Garlemald. I mean seriously, they have been priming us for this for a while now.

Not much to add from me, either, but, true to form...

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Just a thought but could Eureka be tied to the loss of the Isle of Val? I have been trying to place those screenshots of Eureka and beyond the Aetheryte being Eorzean I can't place the architecture. However we do have that dialog when we see Krile that goes along the lines of:

"While I dare not give myself wholly to hope, I will not deny that I have prayed for such a miracle ever since that fateful day."

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Only other thing she could refer to, if the CT stinger hasn't gone the way of many an X-Files cliffhanger, is other survivors of Val (though she could easily be referring to both). We know of one who just sort of shrugged off the whole doomed hometown thing, and depending on your quest completion order could just shrug off the whole thing while Krile was depressed over being the only survivor. What a pal. If he doesn't at least get a mention in 4.2(5) I'm going to start wondering what the hell is up. I've been waiting for this a long time, leave me alone...