Patch 3.4 - Soul Surrender

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

I... I don't like that the next trial is Sophia. I thought she would be the last one of the Triad, but nooo... Let's leave the most boring of the 3 as the last one the players will fight. I still expect a great fight like always, as well as a great OST. A Shiva-like phase where Sophia unleashes different thunder spells and charm mechanics that makes the players coordinate well where they are moving. Also her ultimate is most likely to be Cloudy Heaven.

Keep in mind that the fight against Sephirot was nothing like how it was in ffvi. It wouldn't surprise me if neither of the two others share anything aside from appearance with their ffvi counterparts as well.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

Keep in mind that the fight against Sephirot was nothing like how it was in ffvi. It wouldn't surprise me if neither of the two others share anything aside from appearance with their ffvi counterparts as well.

You're right. At least Sephirot had Fiendish Rage, so I expect to see Cloudy Heaven as well.

My biggest question is what beast tribe worshiped Sophia?

We have no hints, not like the Sightseeing Log of Sephirot.

Completely random, unfounded stab in the dark for beyond even 3.4: Alisae returns to the party and spends a good deal of screentime building a rapport with her brother, and the big cliffhanger for 3.55 (assuming we get additional MSQ like we did last time) is the Alphinaud somehow becomes separated from us and imperiled, which sets up Alisae as our primary "sidekick" for 4.0 as we search for her brother in addition to al the inevitable liberating/primal slaying we end up doing.

Also Deftarm should join our party because reasons.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

My biggest question is what beast tribe worshiped Sophia?

We have no hints, not like the Sightseeing Log of Sephirot.

Seeing as how they're very matriarchal and also originally hail from Meracydia, it could very well have been ancient Miqo'te.

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Originally Posted by Laili

Also Deftarm should join our party because reasons.

You just want to boss him around again :P

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Originally Posted by PArcher

You just want to boss him around again :P

Deftarm > everyone in DF.

While it's relevant again, I'd like to go over the Lahabrea / Elidibus [Balance / Hydaelyn is bad] thing with a fine-toothed comb. It's overdue.

Let me start out by saying that I'm not attempting to dismiss the idea of questioning Hydaelyn; the righteous should welcome doubt, for it can only be overcome, and their position will be all the stronger for it. If Hydaelyn is The Way, She can take some questioning. But that cuts both ways, and the idea of buying what the Ascians are selling raises some concerns for me when subjected to that same level of skepticism.

There's no denying that we're meant to question to what degree the Light should be spreading. Right off the bat, that begs one question: With how badly Hydaelyn has been losing, are the Ascians even accurate in their characterization of Light overstepping its bounds? Or has the Light just stopped following the millennia-old trend of getting weaker and weaker? If Hydaelyn is pushed back 40 yards and regains 10, She's still not even back to midfield. But let's put that aside for now. Let's assume the Light is really threatening the marches, here.

Let's start with the big claim by Lahabrea:

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Originally Posted by Lahabrea

The growing imbalance afflicting the planet must be redressed. If it is permitted to worsen, the very laws of existence─both aetheric and physical─will be warped beyond all recognition. Know you the root of this corruption? Hydaelyn! Like a parasite, She must be burned out if the planet is to recover. And naught but the return of the one true god will ensure Her complete excision.

Now there's an accusation! But Lahabrea holds it rather inconsistently, casting as much doubt on him as he's heaping on Hydaelyn.

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Originally Posted by Lahabrea

All that stands between this world and darkness is an irksome anomaly in the aether—the Echo.

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Originally Posted by Lahabrea

Alas, the gate to the void already stands open. Soon, Darkness shall consume all, and you shall bow down before the one true god.

Which company line to Lahabrea's minions follow?

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Originally Posted by Masked Magus

Yesss...writhe! Writhe in eternal darkness!

And other Ascians on board with his plans?

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Originally Posted by Nabriales

Insatiable hunger of the void! Devour all light and return this world to perfect darkness!

They spend an uncomfortable amount of time acting like any other creature possessed of the Dark's greed.

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Originally Posted by Cloud of Darkness

In darkness, all is as one. Be it hope or despair, everything is mine to devour. All mortals before the flood of darkness will sink lifeless into the void!

So let's move on to Elidibus, starting with a line borrowed from French and his talk of cosmic balance:

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Originally Posted by Elidibus (FR)

Lorsque vous aurez pleinement accepté son pouvoir, l'Écho vous ouvrira les portes de la connaissance. Alors le conflit qui déchire nos deux peuples n'aura plus de raison d'être, tant il est vrai que nous partagerons les mêmes desseins.
When you fully accept its power, the Echo opens doors to knowledge. Conflict between our peoples would serve no purpose, as we would share the same goal.

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Originally Posted by Elidibus

Without intervention, the balance between Light and Darkness will begin to shift, placing our mission in jeopardy. Hydaelyn's champion has grown too strong. [Their] might encroaches upon the realm of gods. Equilibrium must needs be restored. The time is come for you and yours to join the fray... Warrior of Darkness.

A bit more consistent, this one.

Let's pause to consult our allies. Many have made comments about the Light's role in beckoning the Darkness.

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Originally Posted by Wandering Minstrel

But Archon Louisoix warned us that shadows will accompany the coming of dawn. In answer to ascendant light, darkness will gather in opposition...or so I interpret his words.

The Ascians agree.

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Originally Posted by Ascian of the Twelfth Sword

Yes... As the Light burns brighter, so, too, are the shadows steeped deeper in Darkness.

Oddly, our allies usually follow that up with, "We should still purge / banish / cast out / etc. the Dark, tho." Why?

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Originally Posted by Urianger

Harmony is ne'er truly absent. There lieth a balance in the constant swinging of the pendulum... <...> In the face of such trials, I feared the dawn would at last be overcome and the land shrouded in unending night. Thou hast my gratitude, and my unabashed admiration.

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Originally Posted by Urianger

In the welcome light of the Astral Era do the primals cast distorted shadows. 'Tis when the realm is filled with such brilliance that the contrasting darkness doth become absolute. Surrender not thy vigilance, for thou art the source of much radiance... <...> ...But be not disheartened. One day, by thy light, the darkness within and without shall be purged, and the Ascians shall taste lasting defeat. We need only have faith.

Why are even primals quick to champion harmony while denouncing Darkness?

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Originally Posted by Ramuh

If thou wouldst champion the cause of harmony, I must have proof that thou art fit to play the role. Weather mine ire, and prove to me thereby that thou hast strength enough to stay the darkness which threateneth to consume thee. <...> If man is to be delivered from the Dark, it shall be by thy guiding Light alone. Stray not from the path, for if thou dost, thy people shall be truly lost...

Back to Elidibus, whose failure to address this niche of the topic I find ... concerning.

For all his consistency, he's also consistently vague. We would "be of one mind" if we fully accepted the power of the Echo? Why is he not more specific? What if I assumed he meant that literally, a la Ascian Prime, all of our souls crammed into one? What if I assumed he meant that we should all just transcended mortality, Crystal be damned, leave the cycle of the Lifestream, and accept that the death of the world we fought for was fait accompli and for the best? What if he's just assuming that we definitely wouldn't be on board if he was any clearer?

Notice that zero champions of the Anti-Light crowd have any stake in the status of mortals post-endgame.
Notice that Hydaelyn was pretty specific about what She expected in such a scenario.

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Originally Posted by Hydaelyn

[The Light] hath faltered, so hath Darkness risen up in its stead, presaging an end to Life.

Elidibus says that he's not our enemy, that we'd share his goals, and that he just wants to make things right.
So, when he had the chance, why didn't he even try to refute that accusation?

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Originally Posted by Elidibus

These lands, these people, this world─all shall soon change. As it was, so shall it be again. As it should always have been.

Didn't the Gerun Oracles imply that the "original state" of mortals was "nonexistent"?

Given the same opportunity to make a return to the good old days sound like a swell idea, Lahabrea somehow managed to do worse.

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Originally Posted by Lahabrea

Through the Joining, the world shall become whole again. Then all shall be as once it was─as it should ever have remained. <...> Come, mortals! Render up your souls, that Lord Zodiark might be reborn!

I'm left feeling equally concerned that 1) Hydaelyn's version of the story is, at best, biased, or at worst, incomplete and misleading. And that 2) agreeing with the Ascians is equivalent to saying, "They have a point. Let's just die." (Okay, maybe I'm a little more concerned about the second one, personally, but objectively they're roughly on par.)

"If only we had some other ancient third party's opinion."
- Something I think I saw someone say somewhere probably.

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Originally Posted by Tiamat

Such is my just punishment for consorting with Darkness

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Originally Posted by Midgardsormr

Come, mortal─we go to cast out the Darkness!

There are definitely some questions as to the story Hydaelyn would have us believe. But are we also at risk of becoming...

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Originally Posted by Hraesvelgr

Beguiled by the dark ones' lies

This seems like a great time to quote the Thaumaturges' Guildmaster...

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Originally Posted by Cocobuki

Hm hm hm... You think darkness is your ally? Be wary, for darkness bears no allegiances.

But this is the same lalafell that called bats and slugs voidsent. Sooo... not the most authoritative source.

#TEAMHYDAELYN

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I'd like to go over the Lahabrea / Elidibus "balance" thing with a fine-toothed comb. It's overdue.

YUGE edit incoming.

Oh boy

*rushes off to get some snacks and drink*

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Originally Posted by PArcher

You just want to boss him around again :P

Seems like a perfect fit for my "Squadron" tbh!