Bard - they broke my job

Bard is a gimp black mage with a bow.

The idiots who argue AAs forget that you get extra skills in WM, Emparrow only trails slightly behind autos right now (this is factoring out barrage) and the difference is more than made up by the rest.
Adding a flat damage boost scales better with crits, scales better with det (which the nerf does not effect you because AAs only) and one can assume DoT scale in the same way with the new SkSpd effect

You can now hold buffs for an IJ refresh for 33~36 seconds of fully buffed dots every time your buffs are up, reapplying at perfect timing (no clipping). IJ also gains you 100 or so potency every dot reapply because you're replacing what would be a windbite with at worst a straight shot (potency is factoring in minuet's damage bonus as well)

The job is new, it's still quite mobile and movement has not been an issue in DPS for me so far. And frankly anybody who in WM vs no WM, can honestly beat (or almost beat) WM damage without using WM, they're probably playing the job incorrectly

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Originally Posted by aabe

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I believe the bigger idiot is you (I don't think u mind being called an idiot as u are calling people idiot). No matter how you argue, WM is a dps lost in a fight such as Ravana EX or any instances for that matter which requires lots of movement because we have lost our mobility and not to mention the fact that our weapon damage is the lowest of all classes. We will never be able to do any good damage and on top of that, we lost our mobility. Any self respecting bard would not condone the existence of WM. Bards and Machinist are supposed to be the physical ranged dps class with mobility, not some pseudo caster wannabe. So don't make yourself a fool barking here.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I took on the challenge of leveling and learning Machinist, and I STILL don't need to move much at all to do the job right. Design differences aside, it feels no different. And lest we forget, Gauss Barrel and Minuet are fundamentally the same.

So then tell me, where are your credentials and why should anyone listen to you instead?

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I leveled BRD to 60(thoroughly tested it with different openers) and played it through SCoB and FCoB with some respectable numbers.

If you played BRD right you would of known:
a.) The job required movement to perform max dps potential (repelling shot).
b.) We were sometimes the mechanics bitch which most of the time also required movement (for example turn 7,8,12)
c.) The job often required you to weave in 2 abilities in order to maximize dps by making sure everything is on CD in a timely fashion.
d.) Nearly 30% of our damage was from auto attacks (roughly a 16% dps loss if you are not counting the 2 new abilities).

And what do we get now? A caster type job that does no where near what a caster should be doing.

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Originally Posted by aabe

The idiots who argue AAs forget that you get extra skills in WM, Emparrow only trails slightly behind autos right now (this is factoring out barrage) and the difference is more than made up by the rest.
Adding a flat damage boost scales better with crits, scales better with det (which the nerf does not effect you because AAs only) and one can assume DoT scale in the same way with the new SkSpd effect

You can now hold buffs for an IJ refresh for 33~36 seconds of fully buffed dots every time your buffs are up, reapplying at perfect timing (no clipping). IJ also gains you 100 or so potency every dot reapply because you're replacing what would be a windbite with at worst a straight shot (potency is factoring in minuet's damage bonus as well)

The job is new, it's still quite mobile and movement has not been an issue in DPS for me so far. And frankly anybody who in WM vs no WM, can honestly beat (or almost beat) WM damage without using WM, they're probably playing the job incorrectly

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Maybe prior to Heavensward you have been doing crap DPS as a bard that's why you find that WM improves your DPS?

You may gain new skills under WM but you forget that going back to basics you are a quick trigger job capable of firing off/weaving 2x OGCDs in between your GCD skills. Prior to Heavensward you already have quite a handful of them to weave with and with the new skills you have even more. Under the effect of WM you lose the capability to dual weave which is where your DPS loss over time comes from.

How much have you been pulling in FCoB pre-echo? What are your dummy parses (no food/party/pots) right now with/without WM?

The only BRD's that will see an increase in DPS in raid content while using WM are pre 3.0 Ballerina Bards aka BRD's who can't strafe.

If your Autos were not the highest source of your DPS then you were not playing optimally.

Autos were king and BRD's are way behind other classes not called Machinist because they nerfed Barrage and Det(which autos scaled on)

Pre 3.0 i130 BRDs were only behind melee by like 70-80 DPS, now they are behind by 300.

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Originally Posted by ChalupaBatman

The only BRD's that will see an increase in DPS in raid content while using WM are pre 3.0 Ballerina Bards aka BRD's who can't strafe.

If you're Autos were not the highest source of your DPS then you were not playing optimally.

Autos were king and BRD's are way behind other classes not called Machinist because they nerfed Barrage and Det(which autos scaled on)

Pre 3.0 i130 BRDs were only behind melee by like 70-80 DPS, now they are behind by 300.

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This man gets it.

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Originally Posted by JohnMccain

I leveled BRD to 60(thoroughly tested it with different openers) and played it through SCoB and FCoB with some respectable numbers.

If you played BRD right you would of known:
a.) The job required movement to perform max dps potential (repelling shot).
b.) We were sometimes the mechanics bitch which most of the time also required movement (for example turn 7,8,12)
c.) The job often required you to weave in 2 abilities in order to maximize dps by making sure everything is on CD in a timely fashion.
d.) Nearly 30% of our damage was from auto attacks (roughly a 16% dps loss if you are not counting the 2 new abilities).

And what do we get now? A caster type job that does no where near what a caster should be doing.

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Yes, not to mention if SE really wanted to boost our damage, they should've done so with our weapon damage first. Take a look at the Hive weapon, even the BLM's weapon physical damage is higher than BRD's weapon physical when BLM is a magic user class.

My point is, not only we have added cast time now with auto-attack disabled, our weapon damage remains sub-par compared to all other classes (except MCH because we're in the same sinking boat: Gauss Barrel = Wanderer's Minuet). Hence, the reason I scoff at those who says "WM is a huge dps increase".

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Originally Posted by ChalupaBatman

Pre 3.0 i130 BRDs were only behind melee by like 70-80 DPS, now they are behind by 300.

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WD scaling is partially at fault here as well. The higher our ilvl/WD goes the more bard falls behind due to their poor WD scaling compared to every other class.

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Originally Posted by SasakiNori

WD scaling is partially at fault here as well. The higher our ilvl/WD goes the more bard falls behind due to their poor WD scaling compared to every other class.

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Yeah we have shit WD scaling, but its been like that for a while yet we still kept up pre 3.0.

I wish I could read Japanese, google translate sucks and I want to see what they're saying about BRD over at the JP forums, if its picking up steam there then the devs will prob see it quicker.