Am I the only one that sort of kinda likes the nerf to SoF?

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Not really. Since then you'd have people complaining about it being unobtainable after everyone gets their clear lol. Oddly enough, incentive is either too uneffective or it becomes seen as necessary... and anything necessary is met with angst.

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Agreed, giving the trial a reward like glamour and titles that requires a grind would just lead to a similar situation. A situation where those striving to grind out the reward still cause problems for newcomers to the trail because they want the group to complete it easily, quickly and with only those proficient in the trial so as to make their grind more efficient.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Not really, new players would need to do it to to get to the new expansion, since its part of the main storyline. They cannot access the expansion without doing this. Think outside the box a little.

People still do 2.0x stuff for clears today!

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You need to think about it. If you give veterans a reason to grind this Trial specifically they are going to exclude and belittle new players even more due to them impacting their grind for their reward.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Agreed, giving the trial a reward like glamour and titles that requires a grind would just lead to a similar situation. A situation where those striving to grind out the reward still cause problems for newcomers to the trail because they want the group to complete it easily, quickly and with only those proficient in the trial so as to make their grind more efficient.



You need to think about it. If you give veterans a reason to grind this Trial specifically they are going to exclude and belittle new players even more due to them impacting their grind for their reward.

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Thats why instead of a "Grind" it needs to be an achievement based on how many people you HELP. That way you get more of the achievement for every new player doing it.

So you can't just take 1 new person in and the rest veterans.

"Help 10, 20, 30 players complete the steps of faith"

Of you take 1 new person, that is only 1 at a time you will earn. However with more new players it becomes 2x, 3x , 4x-full group x quicker!

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Not really, new players would need to do it to to get to the new expansion, since its part of the main storyline. They cannot access the expansion without doing this. Think outside the box a little.

People still do 2.0x stuff for clears today!

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Sorry, I didn't make it clear on my reply. I meant that the complaints would be about it being unobtainable, even if that may not be the actual case. Even with incentives like that, it's not really reason enough for people to do something they, as a result of existing bad impressions, would mostly steer away from anyway. Point was, complaining happens and incentives aren't really enough in some cases. Steps is unique in how frequently people just leave before it even begins. Even AV, for as much dread as that instance gets, doesn't suffer the same treatment as frequently.

Most of the reasons why its Unobtainable is new freshly geared ilvl90s came into the zone with others with health under 4k expecting to get it cleared. My healer (new player!) has 6k hp! I won't be one shot to the old stomp, BUT NEW PLAYERS WILL, they have 3.5k health!

GEAR DOES MATTER NO MATTER WHAT PEOPLE SAY!

AlSO people leaving! So many people leave when it starts! This is incentive for people to actually STAY and explain the fights.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Thats why instead of a "Grind" it needs to be an achievement based on how many people you HELP. That way you get more of the achievement for every new player doing it.

So you can't just take 1 new person in and the rest veterans.

"Help 10, 20, 30 players complete the steps of faith"

Of you take 1 new person, that is only 1 at a time you will earn. However with more new players it becomes 2x, 3x , 4x-full group x quicker!

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Using the term "help" loosely. They aren't there to help, they are there to grind for the titles and glamour, the new player be damned. Veterans will simply queue hoping for a new player, exploit said new player, or leave when there is no newcomer. It is no different than those that fish for 100 sol bonus individuals. Why encourage negative behavior on the part of veterans when this nerf already helps newcomers succeed easier without veteran aid.

I can barely tell what nektulos is even talking about but please make it stop.

It's an unreasonable goal, because newbies can only have their steps of faith virginity popped once. Constantly finding new people to achieve this is unrealistic.

Darn I fed troll. lets see how this goes

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Originally Posted by Lilyarel

The problem with the Trial was that youre asking a random group of people over the internet to cooperate.

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That's on them, not the game. I did SoF first week in DF, qued solo as tank, no one knew what to do, we wiped once learning the mechanics and we killed on the second try. Players can cooperate if they want to, problem is too many go in as solo heros and fail. Then blame everyone else. "I can do it, it's the other 7 that always mess up".

I'm not keen on the nerf for the simple reason if players can cry nerf on anything they have to put any effort into then they will never learn. Just like spoilt children get everything given and then continue through life expecting the same from everyone.

Ppl r getting "helping" and "carried" mixed in together.
They are 2 different things.

Helping = helping ppl learn the fight -> allows them to understand the fight thus making them capable of helping others = more ppl know fight = less bad players

Carrying = ur dead a lot/ dunno what to do and rather do their own stuff than take criticism and improve = bad player = dunno fight despite u clearing it = not being able to prove tht ur clear worthy if u were to re do that instance.

I'm fine with the nerf on SoF simply because it is main story content, and the item level requirement for it is very low compared to how strong the enemies originally were. While the community is really strong now in terms of item level (average of 120 maybe?), the fact that they implied that it could be completed by a team of IL90 people is something to consider. Would a boss with that amount of HP really be defeated by eight IL90s? Imagine IL90 tanks getting whacked by those adds and that underfoot attack; it's not their fault that they got in and had to face a big-azz boss... the duty let them in.

That said, the lack of cooperation reminds me of a "lone wolf" assassin player that I met in another MMO. He was so pissed off that he couldn't complete duties "by himself" and that he actually had to "go in with a group of people". I wonder what he thought "MMORPG" meant xD

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Originally Posted by Neuflune

I'm fine with the nerf on SoF simply because it is main story content, and the item level requirement for it is very low compared to how strong the enemies originally were. While the community is really strong now in terms of item level (average of 120 maybe?), the fact that they implied that it could be completed by a team of IL90 people is something to consider. Would a boss with that amount of HP really be defeated by eight IL90s? Imagine IL90 tanks getting whacked by those adds and that underfoot attack; it's not their fault that they got in and had to face a big-azz boss... the duty let them in.

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Yes, a group of i90s/i100s should be able to clear the fight if they follow the intended strategy, but no one does the intended strategy.

The intended strategy is:

1. All 4 DpS each man a cannon at the start of each stage.
2. Tanks pull adds between closest cannon set.
3. Healers heal.
4. DpS on Front cannons use cannons to attack Vishap. DpS on Rear cannons use Cannons to kill adds and Miniboss.
5. When Front cannons are targeted by Vishaps AoE, DpS on them disengage for them and help finish of the adds/Miniboss.
6. Tanks grab new adds and tanks them under Vishap
7. Rear Cannon DpS pound Vishap, adds and if (necessary) Miniboss.
8. During Stages 2, 3 and 4 a healer runs up Tower.
9. During Stages 3 and 4 Front DpS run to Snares and use them to stun/fetter Vishap.
10. Front cannon DpS start directly DpSing Vishap.
11. During Stages 2, 3 and 4 healer uses Dragonkiller when Vishap is in range and (if stage 3 and 4) snared.
12. When Rear cannons targeted by cone AoE everyone starts directly DpSing Vishap until barrier falls.
13. Repeat from Step 1 until victory or defeat.