SMN redesign in expansion?

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Originally Posted by Asheilin

When I learned summoner was coming, it was so much THIS but expanded for the new MMO age, however I did expect they'd have a healing spell. For an MMO, XI made Summoner the only way it SHOULD HAVE BEEN. The player commanding their summon to enact its abilities. New Summoner spells: Command 1-3 1 is buff/debuff dpending on summon, 2 is single target, 3 is aoe; Enkindle last spell unknow

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FF11 summoner wouldn't fit with the summoning/summoner lore in FF14. Why does it keep coming back too "but I liked <insert name> games way of doing it." Go play that game. I am not opposed to changes to summoner from something small like adjusting our weapon damage to big things like a redesign, I just do not want a carbon copy of another video game. This is Final Fantasy 14, I want our own version of Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Romsca

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I don't know if this was for me or not, but in case it was I will answer you.

You miss my point ENTIRELY. I'm not asking for a class where I summon a creature and it does all the work for me, I don't know where you even got that impression... I am merely asking for the job to be diversified from Arcanist, just as Scholar is... And in order to do that, SE would have to change cosmetics/potency on several spells and summons. That's what I am getting at, plain and simple.

The rest of your post is ranting about something I never even requested in the first place. Perhaps you assumed I was on FFXI bandwagon of summon a large creature and I stand around Mandervilling my way to victory... I'm not that guy.

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Originally Posted by CodeCass

I can honestly say I've never thought about it like that, and can definitely see where you're coming from.

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Yep you get it, but this guy or gal...

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Originally Posted by Nijuka87

Don't see any problem with it as is, more spells would be the only thing I'd welcome, all jobs are the same, dragoon is just a lancer with jumps. I could list on.

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UM no. Wrong analogy used here. Difference between DRG and Summoner is that there is nothing else that stems from lancer but DRG. SMN is one egi skin and a couple spells short of being an Archanist. I'd agree with you if Garuda and Titan performed differently than Emerald and Topaz Carbuncle, like how EOS and Selene does in SCH...

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Doing an overhaul or even a redesign of an entire job is an extremely dangerous for Square Enix to do and since the people not liking the design of the job are the vocal minority, chances are slim for it to happen when you also factor in the risk to reward of an overhaul.

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I'm not asking for a full overhaul of the job, but even you have to admit that SMN was designed lazily. Don't take offense, but I tire of arguments that quote the "vocal minority" that does not mean that others do not feel this way because nothing is being said. What about others that do their homework before purchasing the game? Those that glance over the skills of Archanist and see Summoner and go "Wtf? Fug dis game. It's whack because they took the shit route and gimped my favorite Job and now I won't buy the game." or even those that have issues with it but do not like posting on the forums, which I'm sure everyone reading this would understand why a person would avoid the forums even if they wanted to complain their heads off...

I started off replying to you but shifted into a general audience. I did not mean any offense to you Zedd. In response to Scholar being different from Arcanist, Scholar is a healing class with a damage class base, of course it's going to be different. Would you rather Scholar only have physick to do the healing? Would summoner being a tank class be enough of a change? I understand summoner lacks a dps flavor from Arcanist, but how many of the other classes are that radically different from their base as Scholar is from Arcanist?

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Originally Posted by Romsca

FF11 summoner wouldn't fit with the summoning/summoner lore in FF14. Why does it keep coming back too "but I liked <insert name> games way of doing it." Go play that game. I am not opposed to changes to summoner from something small like adjusting our weapon damage to big things like a redesign, I just do not want a carbon copy of another video game. This is Final Fantasy 14, I want our own version of Summoner.

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Pretty much this. Could things be changed up to make it better? Sure. But make it so it's a copy of a previous FF version? No thank you. Especially not FFXI.

And no Zedd, this isn't aimed at you either. ;)

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Originally Posted by Romsca

FF11 summoner wouldn't fit with the summoning/summoner lore in FF14.

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As I stated before about how I PERSONALLY don't mind the current version of SMN, I think this might be the main cause of my acceptance. Naturally when I first started, I was picturing an FFXI SMN, being a veteran of that game as well as other FF's....but just as you said, the LORE makes it as it is now. After reading and understanding that, I think that's when I got into the mindset of "ok, so this is what an Eorzean Summoner is like."

Now, saying that, yes, of course I can fully agree that SMN needs some tweeking. And as Zedd put it, I can really see the need to differentiate SMN a bit and let it be it's own beast. My two cents is simply, as it is now, I'm content with FFXIV's SMN....but I do look forward to what it could be in the future as well.

And in the statement that summoner was lazily designed, other than scholar and maybe ninja, all of the jobs were lazily done. Did gladiator really need paladin job just to get 20% damage reduction and enmity multiplier? could have got that with more def/mdef on gear and more enmity on skills. Did thaumaturge really need black mage just to cast flare?

Lastly, there is an expansion coming. Something that Square Enix has probably been developing for a year. Let's wait and see what they give us and if we are not satisfied with the class at the time we will resume discussions.

It was a perfect analogy, every job is the same as its class only with skills or spells only accessible to the job. All classes play like the job they later become, conjurer to white mage, thm to blm. I was pointing out that complaint of smn playing like acn with fester. Smn is a beefed up acn Titan tanks better than topaz, garuda is a upgrade to emerald. You are a smn in the context of this universe.

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Originally Posted by Romsca

I started off replying to you but shifted into a general audience. I did not mean any offense to you Zedd. In response to Scholar being different from Arcanist, Scholar is a healing class with a damage class base, of course it's going to be different. Would you rather Scholar only have physick to do the healing? Would summoner being a tank class be enough of a change? I understand summoner lacks a dps flavor from Arcanist, but how many of the other classes are that radically different from their base as Scholar is from Arcanist?

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WHOA! I did not take offense in your post. It was just my reply to you is all. I'm just a person that adds emphasis on words that I feel need it. Don't read too far into that. ;)

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Originally Posted by Natsuno

Pretty much this. Could things be changed up to make it better? Sure. But make it so it's a copy of a previous FF version? No thank you. Especially not FFXI.

And no Zedd, this isn't aimed at you either. ;)

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LOL. I understood ya. No worries...

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Originally Posted by Romsca

And in the statement that summoner was lazily designed, other than scholar and maybe ninja, all of the jobs were lazily done. Did gladiator really need paladin job just to get 20% damage reduction and enmity multiplier? could have got that with more def/mdef on gear and more enmity on skills. Did thaumaturge really need black mage just to cast flare?

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I disagree with this. They are at least unique as no other job plays like them... That's what I am saying.

3 AT (archetypes) have the exact same spells 2 of those three are actual jobs. Now when looking at the expansion and say SE does eliminate classes you still have two jobs that have roughly 60% to 80% of the same skills except one is meant for DPS and the other support/healing... What other job does this?

That is what I mean by lazily designed...

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Originally Posted by Romsca

Lastly, there is an expansion coming. Something that Square Enix has probably been developing for a year. Let's wait and see what they give us and if we are not satisfied with the class at the time we will resume discussions.

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They already said that they are looking into adjusting summoner before the expansion. I posted it earlier in this very thread.

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Originally Posted by Nijuka87

It was a perfect analogy, every job is the same as its class only with skills or spells only accessible to the job. All classes play like the job they later become, conjurer to white mage, thm to blm. I was pointing out that complaint of smn playing like acn with fester. Smn is a beefed up acn Titan tanks better than topaz, garuda is a upgrade to emerald. You are a smn in the context of this universe.

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And no it wasn't a great analogy based on what I said about 2 quotes up... But to reiterate my point I'll make it clear here. Eliminate the classes from all jobs in the game and pick out the two that have the same spells as another job.

Answer: SCH & SMN

I've read the interview with Yoshi that you are speaking about. Thing is, I won't put much on it for a couple reasons. Starting off, it was made outside of a producers letter, producer Q&A, or a post by Yoshi in a thread on the official forums. Second, they have 3.0 pretty much done and waiting for release so any adjustments outside of the 3.0 content will be minor things like increasing the size of summoners mana pool, etc. Finally, stuff like that would be given to single developer and given a deadline, not going to make drastic changes to the class and possibly ruin all the 3.0 stuff that was worked on for far longer. Now it would be a different story if Square Enix was doing a balance pass on each class as a patch, much like SoE did with SWG after their NGE change. But then we had the actual developer speaking on the forum with the community that played that profession.

Square Enix put money and time into the current 2.5 content and upcoming 3.0. For us to tell them we want changes without seeing what they have worked on is just a rude slap to the team that did the work. Let's be patient, see what they did and then discuss again if we would like to see a different direction.

Only thing I will add is that maybe summoner and scholar should have been added with 3.0 instead of as a branch off arcanist at relaunch.