XIV: P2P or F2P? XI never has Cash Shop, why XIV has?

Different times with a different generation. We're now in the facebook/mobile gaming era where buying for ingame stuff with money instead of earning them by playing is considered normal. Such a thought 7 years ago was outrageous but now you're called an old fart that can't keep up with the times.

Personally I despise it, no matter how much the cool kids of today insist that I am wrong. I guess I am turning into an old fart.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Yet again, go back and google what Pay to Win is.

It doesn't take a developer or a genius to figure that out, you're PAYING TO WIN if it's pay-to-win. Obtaining a minion designed FOR a cash-shop, by paying for it is not winning.

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I get what you are saying.

But by your logic, you are basically implying the only content 'worth' doing...the only content we pay for (as part of our sub) is basically, character battleclass leveling/dungeons/raids/bosses. That everything else is secondary fluff that could even be (free).

So yes, the main focus of the game is not, gardening or PvP or collecting minons etc....but to be fair, the main focus of the game actually isn't only battleclass leveling/dungeons/raids etc either. It's a mixture of all these things. A Free Company that only has it's members focus on raiding...that doesn't buy a house/garden/raise chocobos/socially interact outside a raid etc isn't actually realizing a FC to it's full potential. An endgame raider who only logs in to do is 'gear grind'/'raid' and then logs out also isn't actually consuming the game to it's full potential. SE expects people to 'try it all' and for a long time, the sub included 'it all' Now, it no longer does. Furthermore, many of the players that spend hours playing this game each week, would get burnt out if they only raided/leveled. The side content is what they spend many of their hours doing...and what helps keep all aspects of the game fresh for them. (I mean come on SE...only 3 dungeons in the ex roulette? That becoming boring by the 2nd week).

So yeah, maybe buying that mount doesn't actually fall under the standard 'pay to win' definition as you see...and maybe it should be called 'pay to enjoy' but still, it's not wrong for some people to be upset by certain content they enjoyed being now behind pay walls.

Also, all those purchasable items behind the cash shop pay wall: Now no longer have a story/quest or true reason for having your character have them in game. Sure, minions might have always been small achievements for completing certain quests/maps/missions...but you had to do something to have them...so when you see me with my broom minion, you know I either crafted it (which I did), or had the gil to buy....if have out my puppy, you know I did the quest. Were these hard? Well not really (gardening the right mats for the broom+having the right crafting job leveled and geared takes time, but it isn't 'hard) But since now you can outright buy the minion, SE had no reason to introduce it via a side-quest (which means less game to explore/play for all of us) or add it as a reward to a map/crafting recipe....all of which would increase things to do in game, and give us all more to do.

So is selling a minion a big deal by definition? No. Is it pay to win? Not really in the most simple sense... but it's 'pay to skip' and 'pay to be pretty' And many people who happened to enjoy collecting such content enjoyed it one because they liked having the little buggers ...but also because they enjoyed the side-quests/maps/crafting and exploring needed to do so.

This is a game that was billed on 'you can do it all on one character'
Meaning sure, you can be Healer one minute and Tank the next. But they also meant you could be a master Fisherman, Weaver etc. That sure, SE expected us to clear the storylines, level and take on the higher challenges in dungeons, but they also expect us to enjoy and consume the 'side' content too. The side content is important, it's not trash. By selling components of it in the cash shop, they are cheapening it...same as selling 'Progression Gear' in the cash shop would cheapen character progression.

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Originally Posted by Roris

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Just because your gameplay doesn't involve buying minions, mounts and other vanity items doesn't mean it's not part of the gameplay too. If they didn't want us to buy the vanity stuff, then why put a functioning cash shop system and continue to add things to the cash shop some of them in the game in the first place, including guides to track the progress towards obtaining all of them?

Checkmate anyone who can't afford 5 dollars.

*disclaimer this is a satirical post meant only to make people laugh, I do not align myself with any sides of the argument.

just take it as "DLC" like console game :p take it or leave it... at least not something you "MUST" buy :D

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Originally Posted by UlricCraft

"Shut up and take my money"

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.....is the current way of thinking for gamers, in general.

I am astonished as to how much real money people spend on "online" games nowadays - not only MMOs but mobile games and the like as well.
To put it from a very extreme point of view, the gaming companies have brainwashed people into thinking/evolving into the mind set that paying for this, for that, is acceptable and should be the norm.

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Originally Posted by Mariel_Crystallie

just take it as "DLC" like console game :p take it or leave it... at least not something you "MUST" buy :D

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exept we already pay for this dlc, it's called Subscription *grins*

the cash shop is simply because some of the people coming from free to play love to spend soo much money per month on a game... i did know a guys spending litteraly more of 100 bucks per month on a game... (and i have seen worst)
i can understand that SE want to try to get money from this people... however, it's a bad idea in soo many way.

i will be blunt, if SE was wanting more cash... they will sell them goodies outside of japan too! goodies are yes! cash shop in a sub games is sooo bad! seriously!!!

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

goodies are yes! cash shop in a sub games is sooo bad! seriously!!!

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"I accept to buy physical goodies but absolutely refuse any sort of digital goodies"

I think you should continue by refusing digital music and other stuff like that. They're not tangible either.

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Originally Posted by Roris

I did read and the consensus is that an advantage is an advantage, while some argue that this mostly only applies to PvE and PvP content, that is the fighting whether it be mobs or players, a lot also argue that the definition of winning encompasses a lot of things outside PvE and PvP. On that side a lot argue that having exclusive items that can only be obtained with money also provides an advantage, because in a way you are indeed above the rest in vanity count. IE. non cash shop consumer can only have 10 mounts , cash shop consumer can have 11 mounts, that's still 1 above the rest. ARR already has this advantage/convenience with extra retainers and has cash shop exclusive items.

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This kind of advantage was there right from the start. The game itself does not balanced around vanity/minions/mount or even furnishing as those have both gated content behind ridiculous amount of in-game money (and gated content considered to be bad in modern mmo gameplay-wise) or items that are only available by paying real cash like collector edition items, fanfest items, even veteran reward items ARE "pay2obtain" items.
And cashshop just add variety in those and a more direct approach of selling fancy stuff to customers, but the same principle stays that this part is luxury type and are not meant for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

"I accept to buy physical goodies but absolutely refuse any sort of digital goodies"

I think you should continue by refusing digital music and other stuff like that. They're not tangible either.

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You do realize that digital music are actually owned and store-able, right? And even if said people lost their device by some means, it's still linked to their account and they can re-download it again.

Can you say the same with digital minions/mounts? You're actually view-renting them, not owning them. When you cancel your subs, you lost your chance seeing them again. That's really and totally 2 different things. :p

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

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actually no. Your data is stored forever. They're still tied to your account even if you cancel your sub.

Sure, you can re-download the music for free, which is *better* than game-tied digital goodies. Yet you still own them the same way and the day you play again, they're still here.

My point was, they both share the same principle : you buy non-tangible things. they have no value per say other than the one people are ready to pay for.

Also, if you're ready to buy extremely over priced goodies from an official store (Silentwind's example), there is no way you can be against a cosmetic cash shop (which is also likely to be overpriced as it is cosmetic, mind you ^^) without being labelled as hypocritical. Yes, you can feel them, etc, they're tangible. But all in all, you buy overpriced cosmetic stuff. Some people prefer to buy them in their digital form, and I can't blame them. My flat is damn too tiny :p

edit : I know that you can store digital music on CDs to "make" them tangible. That's not the point here as you "could" also 3D print your pets/mounts if you really wanted to.