Dragoons feeling left out?

Starting to feel like some cheap mmo where they churn out new classes to excite ppl who are susceptible to such. This patch it's " nin in, drg out", wonder what's next...

I play drg too and yh it does feel nice buffing bards. But for me to feel like I'm fulfilling my potential, then I need a bard to buff. Before nin came, this somewhat justified drgs lesser dps compared to monks though I always felt it unfair that I needed a bard to buff.

Now nin is here, who not only does highest dps/on par dps, he also can buff damage, and look at that...he doesn't need a specific class to fulfil his potential, as he buffs all.

And the tp utility is just a further joke, wthhhh were they smoking? This is not needed, and neither was that silly raid wide damage buff.

To rectify this, they have to either nerf nins damage to something between drg and brd damage, or just delete all these silly utility skill.

Very disappointed in the lack of balance.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

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I've only started playing in late 2.2, so I'm not sure on the intervals they do on class balancing (if they ever do). That being said though, it's still probably too soon to say anything is set in stone (with ninja dps)... On paper sure, but practice is still entirely different.

...Although I'd still like to at least see better reasoning than "it's still too soon to tell" to why NIN's dps isn't overshooting MNK/DRG in theory and in parsers for something like T8 (as well as DRGs being on the poor end for FCoB encounters). All I've gotten are very relative (playing ninja/using mudras is complex) or questionable (messing up a Huton/Suiton is just as bad as losing stacks of GL, even though the former is player error and isn't much influenced by fight mechanics)

Yeah I heard they are hard to play, but I think that is a non-issue. Their single target damage + the damage their buff gives is broken. Im sure a nin messing up is as harmful to dps as a monk losing GL, but then their utility.....nope, theres just no words to justify it.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I mean some people could see this not being a problem with shared gear (in the case of BLM/SMN) which was why we could get our BLM to go SMN for t7, but DRGs and MNK have their own gear (XYZ of striking/maiming). IMO fights/encounters shouldn't bench or favor the addition of specific classes for what they bring to the or capability, not to that insane degree anyway (it's nice to have... versus we need to have...)

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I agree with you. I don't want jobs to be similar but each should have something to bring to the table.

DRG currently needs some things to balance it out properly. The following would help:

1. Swap the dot/debuff of Phlembotomize and Disembowel. (This would help with the initial rotation issue of the mob moving around and making them miss HT)
This also allows for their to be a BENEFIT for bring x2 DRG. Meaning one drg doesn't have to waste a GCD putting up phlembotomize. (Kind of like monk w/ dragon kick or ninja w/ the slashing debuff)
2. Have Feint become and OFF GCD skill on Perfect Balance timer, grants an impulse rush buff that waves positionals for 7 seconds
3. Have Keen Flurry grant the trait "Dragon Skin" (while drg) allowing them to absorb 5% of magic damage taken as hp.
4. Make Piercing Talon off GCD still costs some TP.
5. Have Chaos thrust "Crit procs" grant the drg a chance to throw a free piercing talon.

Any of the above would have a nice beneficial effect on DRG's play style.

They don't need their job made easier, no drg thinks a nerf to the difficulty of their class will justify their currect dps, and no drg should want that.

Simple potency buff please. Anything else and I'd worry they'd ruin the class.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

They don't need their job made easier, no drg thinks a nerf to the difficulty of their class will justify their currect dps, and no drg should want that.

Simple potency buff please. Anything else and I'd worry they'd ruin the class.

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None of the above makes their "job easier" it just puts it on par with monk's abilities. In fact missing an impulse drive would hurt them more (if you go off my suggestions) but the benefit is that they can use the feint skill at that point to "fix" a positional issue if they get in a pinch. Also not having chaos thrust up would mean they can't throw any free piercing talons.

Not saying to use all my ideas but any of these would help. An increased potency won't fix the fundamental issue that drg's dots/buff lay out is absolute garbage.

I was referring to your post before you edited

But still, your suggestions change the class way too much....not saying they are bad but I'd rather the class stay the same and receive a potency buff.

Let me rephrase, I LOVE drgs as they are, but their dps should be brought nearer to nin if nin is going to have all that sugar and candy from their utility.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

I was referring to your post before you edited

But still, your suggestions change the class way too much....not saying they are bad but I'd rather the class stay the same and receive a potency buff.

Let me rephrase, I LOVE drgs as they are, but their dps should be brought nearer to nin if nin is going to have all that sugar and candy from their utility.

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I'm going to have agree to disagree. I don't believe increasing the potency of their skills will resolve their issue. The fundamental issue with drg comes down to position skills/placement of disembowel. If they increase the potency of TTT too much then it only promotes badgoons and too little is not even a worthwhile change. Can you imagine a 400-500 potency life surged full thrust with all buffs up? That would make it potentially broken and is only a band-aid to avoid solving the real issues at hand. Positions/Debuff placement.

To further drive the point in. If a DRG gets tethered in t11 (and the tanks aren't chosen) they have to be on a flank... FOR A LONG TIME. So they can do heavy thrust, TTT, and phlem. Want to do a dot? Good luck it could potentially cause you to die if yo try and hit the rear, and cause a raid wipe. Meanwhile monk/ninja sit can sit their say, "well i lose my positional bonus but nothing changes for me." Which would you want to bring granted equally skilled? As much as I wish this would be an easy fix for DRG, it isn't. SE is fooling themselves if they think only changing the jump timer/animation lock is resolving all drg issues.

I agree, DRGs utility is non existent compared to NIN. For now NIN shared gear with MNK up to ilv 110, so gearing them is fairly easy if somebody has a MNK already.

Not only that, but TP regen+mug+increase movement speed and more makes NIN much more desired melee than lolDRGs

I didn't jump on the NIN hype-train yet. I used all of the additional low levels to help me finish my WHM so I could have 1 decently geared job in each aspect of holy trinity. I won't pretend to know what I'm talking about when it comes to Ninja, but this thread seriously reminds me of some of the problems DPS had with bards before they got nerfed (i think it was 2.1 or pre-2.1?) and specifically what Yoshi-P said in regards to Bards.

Not his exact wording, but he said something along the lines of "We want all the different types of DPS to be like pieces to a puzzle. Currently, we feel that Bards have too many pieces of that puzzle."

We got a couple potency nerfs, the additional effect on Rain of Death was altered, and BfB's base damage increased was nerfed, but the DRG trait that raises it stayed the same. The last one was basically just to hurt anyone who cross-classes it, but hurt Bards the most due to all of the different buffs we can get. The extra damage multipled to a greater effect if we popped Hawk's Eye and Raging with it.

Is this accurate for how most of you feel? That NIN's "have too many pieces of the puzzle" ??

Because after reading some of the comments in this thread about what it can do, it sure as shit sounds like they are more OP than Bards ever were before we got nerfed....