2.3 Frontline What do we know?

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Originally Posted by Ragecake

Wtf? Who are you to decide whether or not it would be a good time to share news now about the future of PvP?

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I... Don't?

I'm not demanding they announce news now, I'm suggesting that, now there there is nothing to look forward to with regards to PvP, seeing as after several years we finally have details on the long awaited Frontlines, now would be a good time to release some new hints at future PvP content.

"Hey everyone, look at what we'll be giving you next week! But ooooooh, but whats this vague concept over here we'll add one day?"

That sort of thing. Are you saying it would be a bad idea to have shown a single piece of concept art labeled "Frontlines 2"? Given that we've been waiting since 2011 for Frontlines... Yeah, it would be nice to have some idea that they have something up their sleeves following it...

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Originally Posted by Ragecake

But I'm not going to throw an tantrum if they don't.

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Are you implying I am? Again, it was merely a suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

...now would be a good time to release some new hints at future PvP content.

That sort of thing. Are you saying it would be a bad idea to have shown a single piece of concept art labeled "Frontlines 2"?

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Soon™

Please look forward to it.

It would be a great idea to show some concept art for future battlegrounds or other news on PvP! But I'm not going to throw an tantrum if they don't.

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Originally Posted by Shake0615

That's been my argument this entire time. I couldn't care less if they toss out morale at this point, but it must be replaced with something that makes the gear earned in the Wolves' Den competitive. Otherwise every single piece of PvE gear of equal item level will be superior than xWolf gear in PvP. Either add in an extra stat or give meaningful set bonuses to pieces of PvP gear that only apply to Frontlines and the Wolves' Den.

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I think that is a fair way of handling it. Although it looks to me like other people would rather PvP with a lead pipe while other players have a toothbrush, it's just so weird to me.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

I think that is a fair way of handling it. Although it looks to me like other people would rather PvP with a lead pipe while other players have a toothbrush, it's just so weird to me.

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I'd rather they fix PvP progression.

Make Wolves Den less of a grind.
Lock Frontlines behind a quest that requires R25.
New players enter Wolves Den, it's less of a grind so much more tolerable.
They rank up, obtain some Morale gear, then enter Frontlines.
Frontlines matches up the same way Wolves Den does, so teams are roughly equal in rank.

And that's to say nothing of Morale adjustments, but it gives PvP a very clear sense of progression that currently looks to be non-existent. The PvE equivalent would be if they let you enter Coil at Lv1. No, you had to level up you character and go through some trials to enter Coil, the same should be true for Frontlines. If they make the grind manageable it isn't even that big of an issue. The only reason we have this issue is because someone at SE refuses to adjust the grind in PvP.

Given the Frontlines news, I'm really not surprised they wont change it. It's a disturbing trend in XIV; All vanity related content is rarer than progression content. It's really no surprise that Animal Gear would be locked behind R40 for no other point that vanity (for the foreseeable future, at least). Odin and Behemoth? Check. Crafted vanity gear? Why does that need maps? Housing? Fledgling Apkallu is locked behind the ridiculous Sightseeing Log... I'd go on but I already made myself sad by reminding myself about my baby Apkallu that never will be. :(

Why does PvP need progression? It doesn't do much besides segregate the PvP player base and make it less appealing to new players.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

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So you want frontlines to be even more barren than wolve's den...
The only way to have massive(72 i guess you could call massive) pvp active in a MMO is to have it accessible to everyone off the bat, not to restrict it behind a grind that's super punishing to new people..
I don't know where's all this "QQ can't pwn noobs with my gear" is coming from, i find this lvl sync to be one of the best things they could do to revive the nearly dead pvp in this game and chill they're definitely going to make it matter again at some point , think of this as a PvP promotional strategy, this coming from me who has i94 pvp gear set btw...

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Originally Posted by Pibz

So you want frontlines to even more barren than wolve's den...

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Wolves Den is only really barren because of the ridiculous grind...

If people want to seriously do Frontlines, they'll grind through the ranks to access it. If that grind isn't ridiculous like it currently is, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

Why does PvP need progression? It doesn't do much besides segregate the PvP player base and make it less appealing to new players.

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Because progression provides a purpose? Yes, fun is a purpose, but it isn't a purpose that keeps people doing the same thing over and over. Progression gives people a reason to keep coming back to Frontlines, rather than just popping in whenever they're bored. Having a reason to keep coming back to the content is how you keep it alive.

It's the same fault Wolves Den had, actually. Wolves Den had progression of course, but it was so ridiculously steep that people simply dismissed it. That is a large part as to why Wolves Den failed, and rather than learning from that mistake, they're just throwing Frontlines under the bus...

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Originally Posted by Ragecake

and YES, they're going to make improvements to PvP as a whole in the future.

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Sadly, not all of us have such faith in our magic hope crystal ball, especially when it proved so inept when it came to Frontlines in the first place. Still, at least whatever they add next for PvP wont have three years of hype behind it, so there's that...

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Originally Posted by Pibz

...i find this lvl sync to be one of the best things they could do to revive the nearly dead pvp in this game and chill they're definitely going to make it matter again at some point...

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I completely agree. It's a great marketing strategy for PvP in this game to get new players interested, and YES, they're going to make improvements to PvP as a whole in the future.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

Why does PvP need progression? It doesn't do much besides segregate the PvP player base and make it less appealing to new players.

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For the same reason that PvE needs progression: to keep people interested in content. No one farms Brayflox or Primals just for fun; they farm them for tomestones or gear drops to progress their character. PvP is the exact same.

Demand rank 25 to enter frontlines doesn't work because the most population in datacenter haven't that rank at start 2.3. Then, frontlines will be exclusive.

I agree Frontlines is the first step to introduce players to pvp.

- You won't need skill to kill a person, just stay in a pos, try to hide and attack a random player.

- Your gear is not important because all player are synchr.

- You will earn seals and pvp exp (numbers are unknow, but without info you could reach rank40 inside frontline).

Atm, we are agree and is reasonable.

What need SE to force player to play wolves' den? They must establish a max rank in frontline, maybe max rank 20 and you have to play wolves' den to earn more xp and seals to get the mount, new pvp gear and other stuffs.
Other thing is change morale to another stat

But my impression is after 2.3, wolves' den will be death or queue take long time.

EDIT: Back to the synch point.

If all players are synch, why can i not gear my pvp items? (ofc we can, but we are in a disadvantage)
Pve geared have +100 vit, +200 crit, + 100 det, +100skill/spell speed
Pvp geared have +120 vit, +150 crit, + 50 det, +200 morale

With synch and inside frontlines we have 50 vit, 100 crit, 25 det but pve players will got a 4th stat and a pvp player not. So you are forced to use pve gear. Yes, pve gear is easily to get and blah blah blah, but i earn a gear for a purpose, pvp and i can't gear up because is become is useless versus pve gear 80.

You want synch, ok it's fine, i wear my rank 30 gear synchr to 80, no problem, then give me back the 4th stat.