Serpents of the Twelve: Slaves of the Allag?

BREAK OUT YOUR DARKSTEELFOIL HATS - THIS ONE'S ON THE FRINGE.

In Version 1.0, we saw the sea serpent of Limsa Lominsa (rumored then to be Thalaos, the sea serpent created by Llymlaen to fill the primordial dry with water) fiercely guarding the treasure at Seal Rock (one of the mysterious horns desired by the ascians). Likewise, we saw Midgardsormr (rumored then to be the guardian of Silvertear appointed by Althyk and Nymeia) fiercely guarding the concentration of aether at the center of the world's network, resting below the falls...

Then, revealed was Bahamut (thought by the Ishgardian theologian to [possibly] be considered a god to dragonkind) imprisoned in a great Allag machine (known as Dalamud in the modern age) in the skies. If we take a close look at the structure, we can see that Bahamut was pinned immobile at the enter by the "swords", these swords were then held in place by the spherical frame, likely distributing the force of his struggle from the swords to the frame evenly and locking the prison securely shut.

In Bahamut, we see a few clues that the Allag were somehow capable of controlling, perhaps even enslaving, dragons. If you haven't seen any footage from the Binding Coil, let's just say for now that Bahamut probably didn't forge that golden armor with his little T-Rex arms and that the lunar transmitter probably wasn't actually used to emulate a magick they were perfectly capable of using on their own in order to crash the machine they exiled to the sky themselves into their own territory.

I'm starting to become more and more convinced that The Twelve were simply great Allag figures. Perhaps "Midgardsormr" and "Thalaos" were enslaved by the Allag to protect areas they deemed important? Perhaps the war between Dravania and Eorzea is older than we think and truly goes back to the real, Allagan Halone? The farthest back we've seen the legends of the Twelve truly go are back to the Allagan Runestones on which their symbols were carved; but perhaps in this time they were not yet gods. Perhaps the Eorzeans crafted these myths later on ... after all, they considered Dalamud to be a celestial body placed in the heavens at the creation...

Puts a new spin on Mehphina's Loyal Hound... no?

EDIT: Now I'm all worked up over what the hell the horns were, again... Freaking horns...

Wow...where do you get all this information from? You are really into the Lore...no doubt! Cool stuff. Is this somewhere all in one place or do you have to go and piece it all together??

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

Wow...where do you get all this information from? You are really into the Lore...no doubt! Cool stuff. Is this somewhere all in one place or do you have to go and piece it all together??

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It's all over the place, lol. Someday I hope to have a lot of it in Loremonger, but it's a huge project to do alone and I can only work on it in time that's not dedicated to actually playing the game or focusing on real-life responsibilities. Until then, I'll have to stick to websites and word documents!

nice find but I still would like to know about "she" who isnt named by Garuda who owns Gaious, that would explain why Gaius wanted to free Behamut also the reason for his personal interest in invasion of Eorzea, as for the searpents I think more them as Jail Guards, guarding the Sealing points to Behemut's Prison, I mean if you look at it this way it kind of explains why Empire wanted to release as much aether(sp?) which not only weakens the seals on prison, but they use player into going after garuda who's gathered Aether is used to weaken the seal further. the rise of moogle king was because of same reason the release of aeyther was so much that moogles thinking to balance the aether in world they needed the king here, even though he isnt a Primal but his summoning through the use of aether was a offset, the reason I say for this is because the moogles didnt change even after they summoned the king.

also this would also explain the acsion's mission of releasing the darkone, but I have a theory about that as well, seems to me like the darkone and Hadelyin(sp?) are two sides of same coin, seems like since the darkone gathered his forces to attack Hayedln(sp?) so as to defend it self against such attacks Big H(Hadelyin(sp?)) uses player as its defender, which would co-inside with you fighting next to Big H as its defender against Lehbora(sp?).

as for the primal in the game their personalities are what they would normal be counted with in terms of aspect of their element:-
Ifrit - Fire Rage, so he pretty much angry all the time, bad tempered and wants to sort everything by force. this game he seems to be the weakest of all so he is always looking to gain more power by getting more followers.
Ramuh - Wisdom Judge, he pretty much is like the judge and jury, he is analitical of things before he takes action. he is quite content with what he has in slyph followers and will not tolerate aggersion.

Garuda - Most of the time she is as wind blow, but in this one she seems to be a psychopath, bent on getting more power and to prove to all others that she is most powerful of them all.

Titan - Gentle Giant, Protector, seems like same as all other games he is quite content with defending what he already has, does not like aggression but will protect what he already has in followers.

Levithan - ?

Behamut - Forbidden one? Balance keeper? He in pretty much in all the series starts off as sealed which is why I am calling him forbidden one, in some of the games he was in to the balance of things so I am not sure where to put him.

Siren - yes I am putting her down as Primal but a lesser, she doesnt have followers just the souls she captured though her song.

Midgarsomrr - put him in as lesser primal, because his death is the cause of release of so much aether that it weakens the world boundy between the world and the aetherious ( aeterite plane? calling it aetherious cos its convinent) where the Primals exist before they are summoned into the world.

Odin - Black Knight, Assassin ? - summoned in some age past and was sealed just like Behamut but doesnt need aether to sustain it self in the world so does that mean that it was summoned using physical body? of sort or someone summoned him in mortal body? which sustains him.

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Originally Posted by Meliae

nice find but I still would like to know about "she" who isnt named by Garuda

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I'm pretty sure this is Hydaelyn as her reason for saying "she" is 'What foul stench... I see... SHE has touched you...' in response to her trying to temper you but being unable to due to having been chosen by the mothercrystal, Hydaelyn. Or so it seems to me.

I'm not sure about this since we still don't really know what primals are exactly and where they came from, but i think they might be "ideas" given form by the aether reacting to prayers in some way, so the twelve might have been Allagans, but the idea or concept of them eventually became divine as people started praying to them, making their essence manifest within the aether, kinda like the eidolons from ix, which were myths/memories given form by the mother crystal.

Rhalgr is for example summonable, as Lahabrea tried tricking the young Ala Mhigans into doing so.

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Originally Posted by Eidolith

"ideas" given form by the aether reacting to prayers in some way <...> Rhalgr is for example summonable

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Exactly! A few of us arrived at the same theory (Eorzen deities possibly being aetheric thoughtforms); of course, this isn't required to be true for the "present-day legends of the Twelve are about ancient Allag figures and the dragons we see doing their bidding were once under their control" theory to have any weight, but they are compatible as of 2.00, as far as I know.

It's better than our usual house of cards! lol

Major spoilers below. Though I figure it's a given in this thread.

This has actually crossed my mind as of late, after having completed the summoner storyline. Having learned that summoning is an ancient Allag art, the gears in my head started turning on what implications that might have. What Lahabrea says during the opening moments of the calamity seems to sort of reinforce this idea for me, personally. How he went on about how he was delighted to see Bahamut once again, implying Lahabrea has been around since the time the Allag sealed him away in Dalamud.

What if they were the ones who originally taught the Allag the art of summoning? Maybe the Allagan's technological prowess fed so much into their ego that they thought they could summon and control what we've been led to believe is one of the most powerful primals of all.

Maybe the Ascians goaded the Allag into summoning Bahamut, knowing full well that the empire wouldn't be able to control him, and Bahamut would destroy their civilization and further the Ascians goal of resurrecting their deity. Maybe Dalamud was a last ditch effort for the Allag to seal away their mistake, only for it to come far too late and at far too great a cost, resulting in the complete destruction of their empire.

Lots and lots of maybes, but I think that might tie in well with the idea that the Allagan Empire sought to control all of the primals. I mean, Ultima Weapon (which is Allag) is literally that, only on a smaller scale.

If any of my fringe theories about Bahamut, the lunar transmitter, and Allag dragon slavery are true, that makes sense to me! Usually, a summoner is able to take the aether, form the pet, and then dissolve it back into the stream... but if they summoned Bahamut to enslave him only to have him drink the planet dry and break their control, Dalamud seems like the next logical step...

I like this theory, however I suspect there is a distinct point of difference between Bahamut and Thalaos/Midgardsormr.

Under my fringe theory, the time prior to the first umbral era is the time of gods. But gods doesn't mean the Twelve, it means Ascians.
And that changes the context of how and why these ancient beings exist.