Zenos redemption arc will make Stormblood great again.

This expansion fell flat on its face in a few parts, and even though I know it's overall more polished than HW, is larger than HW, and is yet unfinished, it has yet to win me over from HW.

But a singular point which would win me over, instantly, is if they somehow manage to redeem not only Fordola and Yotsuyu, but even Zenos himself. And if the developers are truly as great as they are they'd realize the potential in pulling off something like that as well.

I didn't really trust Yoshi-P when he said they purposefully made an absolutely evil character that no one could ever empathize with, for one it's quite impossible to do so if you are a human yourself, and two they gave us the option themselves to "acknowledge" Zenos in the final confrontation. The simple fact that the Garlean emperor, a cold man, has no pity and empathy for his own son perhaps shows us that it's not right to write off people like that, and can even argue that writing them off can be part of the reason they turn into monsters.

So, ahem, Zenos redemption arc incoming?

The emperor lacked empathy for his son specifically because of what he had become, referring to him as a monster.

If anything, we'll probably get a little more insight into why Zenos ended up the way he did, as some of the blame almost certainly lies with his father.

I'm honestly not expecting much in that regard until we go to Ilsabard and Garlemald, though.

I wonder if redemption for Zenos is the right word.

Analysis, explanation, perhaps? Did the emperor always see him like this? Was it a mental condition he was born with, or the product of experimentation? We heard through Aulus that it was Zenos that allowed the resonance research to continue even after it was canned, was it a side effect of going too far with the echo?

It is clear that the last days of Zenos' life was a trend of self destruction,and to see if there was any man before, for both father and son, might defang the terror that is the legatus of the 6th, but the story's actions threw that out already. After Zenos' there seems to be little the story can do to bring the magic back to them as antagonists. Varis could stick Magitek Metal Gear REX in the middle of a fortified city, and I'd just roll my eyes and count the beats "scion looking from a corner, fetch quest, flawless plan from the twins, ask around quest, and I make things go boom with my tiny sword, while everyone looks on, amazed." Behind the magitek and propensity to be the plot's punching bag,just 'what people are behind the iron curtain' seems to be a question a lot of people want to explore, sometimes by even roleplaying characters from the empire.

The Emperor disapproved of Aulus and sent him away. It was Zenos who approached Aulus and willingly allowed himself to be experimented upon.

Furthermore, Varis himself is confirmed as having forged a strong friendship with Regula during their time as children. A friendship which lasted for decades. So the idea that Garlean high society prevents friendship isn't at all applicable.

Then, of course, there's Yoshi-P's own words. That he wanted Zenos to be a character that nobody would sympathise with. The guy was a monster, he was clearly deranged and much of it was his own doing. He willingly tortured and killed not only the opposition but his own allies as well. He also did not care for Garlemald. Everything was a game for him and regardless of seeing the Warrior of Light as his 'first friend' it's pretty obvious that nobody wanted to get close to him as he was obviously messed up.

I believe it will be Varis who will receive a redemption arc. Perhaps a change of heart in regards to his approach to leadership and goals. Garleans are, after all, described as pragmatic and efficient - and whilst reform is needed to some extent they do have good reason to be wary of the 'savages' given their own suffering in the past.

Let's not forget Regula's final words, either. He pretty much outright states that he wants the Warrior of Light - and Scions - to live on and help put an end to the Eikon threat once and for all alongside the Emperor. We can assume he knows Varis well enough for this to be a possibility. Zenos being branded a monster by his own father is another potential step towards redeeming Varis. As is the lack of reinforcements - either before the liberation of Gyr Abania and Yanxia or afterwards. It's possible that there won't be a counter attack and that Elidibus' scheming will result in the Emperor making a tactical move to request the aid of the Warrior of Light. He is, after all, described as very skilled in regards to tactical decisions - and we've only seen a few brief glimpses of him despite it being clear that he has a major role to play in the story.

I don't want a redemption arc for Zenos. (It's quite impossible for him to redeem himself, given he's dead.)

What I would like is a more explicit confirmation that, like Fordola and Yotsuyu, he was a product of his environment. That seems to be a theme with all three antagonists of Stormblood. Fordola is the way she is because of her Imperial upbringing; Yotsuyu is the way she is because of how horribly her family treated her and Doman culture did not favor dealing with the issues. To simply write Zenos off as a monster "cuz that's the way he was" is, I feel, not looking at him or the recurring theme of 4.0's antagonists in order to have somebody to hate.

If Yotsuyu could be said to be the sum total of Doma's sins... why does the same concept not apply to Zenos and Garlemald? I think it does. That's all.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

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This. I've even noticed there are some recurring themes in the Garleans we meet who were born and raised there. What's most interesting to me (other than dying to learn about the sociocultural contexts they were raised in) is how they each responded. Writing off the background of Zenos' monstrosity in Just-So fashion is a disservice to some really interesting narrative in the game.

Perhaps zenos was that kid who was torturing and killing small animals because he liked the sounds they made when he hurt them. Sometimes people are just born bad... it's not common but it does happen... lack of empathy, joy in cruelty... maybe the reason he was out in the territories was because the garlean people simply couldn't stomach such a monster in their "civilized" society... he was simply too sick and dangerous to want to deal with... better to send him out with the rest of the "savages"... perhaps it was varis' intent to let zenos self destruct hoping that he and the resistance would ultimately wipe each other out rather than deal with him directly...

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I didn't really trust Yoshi-P when he said they purposefully made an absolutely evil character that no one could ever empathize with, for one it's quite impossible to do so if you are a human yourself, and two they gave us the option themselves to "acknowledge" Zenos in the final confrontation.

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It's more than likely Zenos was a legitimate sociopath with an utter lack of empathy and the viewpoint that other people aren't real. We are given the chance to acknowledge him because as hinted at through the dialog of SB, the WoL is suffering from a life of constant battle and watching his friends die. The DRK quests go deep into this.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Perhaps zenos was that kid who was torturing and killing small animals because he liked the sounds they made when he hurt them. Sometimes people are just born bad... it's not common but it does happen... lack of empathy, joy in cruelty...

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This cannot be verified, but let's assume it to be true for the sake of argument. Zenos was just a psychopath by nature.

Why the hell was he made commander of a military unit? That's one of the last positions you want a psychopath to be in.

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Originally Posted by Delily

It's more than likely Zenos was a legitimate sociopath with an utter lack of empathy and the viewpoint that other people aren't real.

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It's more along the lines of Zenos believing that anyone who doesn't enjoy violence like he does is less than human. This is why the Warrior of Light, and them alone, is the only person he shows real emotion toward - friendliness, in his own twisted idiom. He believes you share his love of violence and thus are on the same level as him (re: human).

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Originally Posted by Cilia

This cannot be verified, but let's assume it to be true for the sake of argument. Zenos was just a psychopath by nature.

Why the hell was he made commander of a military unit? That's one of the last positions you want a psychopath to be in.

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He was a member of the Royal family and his father was head of the military. Take it from someone who comes from a country that has had... Tumultuous times with the aristocracy. Being a psychopath doesn't discount you from high ranking positions if your families status is high enough.

Just be glad we got to him before he ascended to the throne.