Melee Positional Requirements

Back in the good old days casters were interrupted from every hit, bards and machinists couldn't do max damage unless they stayed at a magical range, and melee dps couldn't get positional bonuses without being...well..in position. This was balanced well.

Let's look at it today:

SE added a 15% health threshold for casters, essentially allowing them to freecast.

SE essentially removed the ranged penalty from BRD/MCH, allowing them to do max damage at all times.

SE removed positional requirements for melee DPS, allowing them to also do maximum DPS...Oh, wait, no they didn't.

How about you make it so that positionals are effective in PvP as long as you aren't hitting the target from the front? You lightened all other class' penalties so far, but ignored melee. Our turn.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

SE removed positional requirements for melee DPS, allowing them to also do maximum DPS...Oh, wait, no they didn't.

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Lol, I felt like an idiot reading this until I read the last part.

Thought I was missing something because I always ignore "Fang and Claw" and "Wheeling Thrust" playing DRG in PvP. I can't agree more with you, something should be done about it. You can't get the position right using focus + opponent moving nonstop.

Yupp, they made it so you need to use the cheesy stuff to get kills (adrenaline spam, late game nightmares) or everyone has to be attacking same target at all times. Melee/tank DPS is seriously gimped right now. You lose positional potencies AND auto attacks.

The original Feast was the best. I'll say it every post.

why can't we make a macro to do my rotation???

can anyone help?? i want to afk

edit: am monk

They already buffed Monk and NIN for absolutely no reason last patch lol. Like honestly that monk buff was not needed at all. Can I get a 60 second recast buff on my impulse rush as dragoon since we handing out free buffs anyway?

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

They already buffed Monk and NIN for absolutely no reason last patch lol. Like honestly that monk buff was not needed at all. Can I get a 60 second recast buff on my impulse rush as dragoon since we handing out free buffs anyway?

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I'm honestly pretty happy with those changes, apart from Somersault having zero need for a potency increase, and Far Shot's fix being as unimaginative as ever. I thought Somersault's direct damage would be nerfed to make up for the reduced cooldown. I also can't imagine the potency bonus on Tar Pit being worth much of anything. I'd much rather have seen it leave an actual heavying Tar Pit in addition to the original, duration-ed AoE status debuff hit. Cut the potency and make it a 50/100% absorb, if needed. Make Carnal Chill start at 20% (III->30%), but deal half effect to additional AoE hits. Expand radius to 7y. Now you've got some real DRK utility. ...Maybe too much, actually...

The only real low blow the patches have seemed to deal so far was the change of 15% HP necessary to interrupt. I'd be fine with that if only it didn't mean that quick-hitting classes, scoring say 12% HP every second, couldn't interrupt a thing. There needs to at least be some sort of roll-over, so that our AAs and unpeaked damage doesn't go utterly to waste. That said, the Summoner nerf was a bit overkill. Especially for so long as they can be hard-countered by Monk (even easier now with Somersault's buff).

On topic, though, I'm fine with melee positional requirements. I deal enough damage despite them, and a fair bit more once an enemy gets lazy and stops spinning and jumping around like a glitchy hare. Or at least I did when I could actually AA one caster, weaponskill another, and oGCD a third within range to keep myself or their target alive through interruption. Even with any changes to interruption, I'd probably be doing only a third of that tops, likely with a much reduced skill ceiling/payoff.

I suppose this would be alright though I feel even without our positional bonuses we're still pretty strong, though it goes without saying that if they were to do this then they should also change the effect of Impulse Rush as well.

Considering most burst comes from the OGCD department where Positional requirements don't really exist except in a couple of cases (sorry Ninja) it would probably be a very potent buff for Dragoon and Monk sustained damage and support their already powerful OGCD burst.

I mean speaking as a monk myself the change might help Ninja get a little better while the effects on Dragoon and Monk might be a bit much. Though less so with Dragoon since they can already negate positional requirements every so often.

Honestly thinking on it it's a bit hard to say exactly how strong of a buff this would be. I wouldn't mind seeing them try it out to determine if its too strong.

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Originally Posted by Koltik

Back in the good old days casters were interrupted from every hit, bards and machinists couldn't do max damage unless they stayed at a magical range, and melee dps couldn't get positional bonuses without being...well..in position. This was balanced well.

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Yea, no. Allowing everyone to break a cast by a mere auto attack isn't balanced. It's retarded. There is a difference between being utterly useless deadweight who does 0 DPS because of a MNK's auto attack and DPS actually doing DPS even if the potency is lowered by 40 potency.
Being able to cast for 15 seconds freely every 3 minutes is not balanced, even more so when a piece of flying paper still interrupts you within those 15 seconds.
Can't believe when a melee is asking for more nerfs on ranged and buffs on melees...smh

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Originally Posted by Cherub

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I think what Koltik meant by that was there was a detriment to every class inside PVP. Melee couldn't reliably position, Ranged couldn't reliably turret, and Healers couldn't reliably cast a heal at all times. In a way having a detriment to your job choice is in a way somewhat balanced, the detriment to casters was just a bit too high at the time.(Especially for Black mage)


Where as now the only thing true in that statement is that a Melee can't reliably position all the time, and for a job like Ninja this can make a valuable tool like Trick attack much harder to use.

It's definitely a lot harder to interrupt casts without having CD's up to do so now. If they were as easy to interrupt Dark Knight might not be as bad as it currently is.

In most cases you're correct a lost positional isn't the end of the world for us Melee players, however in the case of Ninja specifically it can cause issues with their burst kit.

In the same vein a gained positional (outside of maybe bootshine in the proper form, which requires the proper form outside of perfect balance) might not be such a huge deal either. The only class where positional requirements can actually make your burst harder to do is Ninja as far as I know, and they would benefit directly from a buff like this, where as Monk and Dragoon could either need to be toned down or would function more or less the same as they do now.

I'm not saying they definitely should buff melee in general but it is the only role that still retains its original detriment from the start of Wolves Den.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

Exactly

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Thanks for making my job easy. This is exactly what I was getting at.