Red is obsolete.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Not sure how a generalist having support spells stops it from being a generalist...

[Seriha]

Well, when all people want of you is the support spells, what's the point of being a generalist again?

[Duelle]

Not sure how a generalist having support spells stops it from being a generalist...

When it trumps every other aspect of the generalist, it is a very bad thing.

I could also start using "hybrid", since that puts everything I say in a more clear context.

[Raksha]

Well, when all people want of you is the support spells, what's the point of being a generalist again?

So do you want RDM to be good at everything? Or do you want RDM to become a specialist? If the latter, what should RDM specialize in?

[Duelle]

So do you want RDM to be good at everything? Or do you want RDM to become a specialist? If the latter, what should RDM specialize in?

The specialization should be up the player. That'd make the RDM's hybrid nature shine more than soloing genbu and spamming refresh ever would.

[Seriha]

So do you want RDM to be good at everything? Or do you want RDM to become a specialist? If the latter, what should RDM specialize in?

It's a line that's unfortunately been blurred with DNC's implementation as a martial enfeebler with secondary support tools, but to say both can't coexist without offering their own unique talents would be akin to sluffing off BRD and COR as their own flavors of support.

I've mentioned before I'd be okay if SE took the enfeebling ball and ran with it, and while that wouldn't exactly solve the issue of being a wannabe WHM for EXP purposes, harder mobs would rightfully suffer under a wider array of debilitating spells. At the moment, we're just a little better than a WHM, or any enfeebling capable job that subs RDM, really.

[Stylin]

Well, I think where you and I differ is more on the "worth your salt at your trades" bit. RDM as it is is currently not worth its salt in the melee department. We've gone over why in the melee thread, so no need for repeats here, though.

Operative word "should be". But yes, it's been discussed so I'll stop there.

I disagree. Support-oriented things should be given to support-oriented classes. It made sense for Bard to get this through ballad, but it never made sense to give it to RDM because RDM at the time was a generalist that should have been pushed towards the option of front-lining and hitting things or back-lining and healing/nuking.

This is why I also say MP regeneration should be inherent to anyone with an MP bar.

I am really confused now. You just said exactly what I said, but on a broader scale.

[Duelle]

I am really confused now. You just said exactly what I said, but on a broader scale.

Not sure why it would be confusing. I disagree with the approach to, in this case, distributing Refresh. I'm of the belief no class should be shackled to a "resource management" spell like Refresh. If Refresh has to be on the table, as I mentioned, it should be self-cast only or a proc precipitated by action in the front lines. To me that would mean:

Spellblade I (lv10, 1 minute cooldown)
Requires Red Mage as main job
Requires Fencer's Oath (the RDM melee stance)
Requires Sword or dagger equipped

Cast an elemental spell through the equipped blade, bypassing casting timers entirely. Spellblade accuracy is affected by main-hand weapon accuracy and is not affected by MAB.

Combined with:

Mystic Resonance (RDM lv40 job trait)
Requires Fencer's Oath

Spells cast through Spellblade I cause magic resonance around all party members, giving them the effect of Refresh for 90 seconds.

That's how I'd do it, anyway.

[Zatias]

Yes, red is obsolete. Green is a much better color.

All joking aside, Abyssea is broken, not the job.

[Demonized]

hey all i got a question that i think would be interesting to get the answer too lol
why is it rdm got cure4 at 48 and now its 90 and still got cure4 no upgrades ??
short but just interested to find out ya thoughts