[dev1007] Voidwatch: Obtaining Spoils

[Raksha]

I think having mandatory events that can be lowmanned at this stage of the game is just kind of an issue in general.

Like, KS99 Wyrm, Fafnir, and Nidhogg can all be killed with a single party. Killing with more than a single party might slightly speed up your kill rate, but not enough to offset the fact that it's no longer purely your pop your drop. Fafnir is an easy duo, let alone with a party. Nidhogg is a harder duo, but honestly not that much harder. By making it a full-out linkshell event, you take the few people who have pop items and could have just gone and killed the monsters together and force them to share the drops that they could have gotten for themselves in a comparable amount of time (assuming there was no event that night) with the rest of the linkshell. Assuming everyone is equally skilled/connected, being in the linkshell has just cost them drops without providing any service.

No one is forced to bring an orb. If you want the LSes help beating the ks99, then you are bound by the rules. If you don't want to follow the rules then dont bring an orb. We also offer points for people who donate their orbs.

Most everyone in our LS just pops theirs on free time, we very rarely do KS99 runs. This is kind of a non-issue really.

If people aren't equally skilled/connected with a system like yours, then some people will only be able pop when your linkshell is doing "an event." In this case, the more skilled/connected players would logically not pop their pops then and the linkshell would basically end up exploiting people who aren't skilled/connected enough to do lowmannable content.

The purpose of doing the low-mannable content is to help the people who can't/won't do it on their own. I wouldn't call that exploiting anyone. The way it usually goes down is that people who have the resources to low man stuff donate their pops for points, and the people who need the drops bid on them. The people who "will only be able to pop when the linkshell is doing an event" wouldn't have the opportunity to pop at all if it wasnt for the LS.

And to be honest, there isn't a lot of this "exploitation" happening. The majority of what we do is stuff like voidwatch. When we do abyssea events it's usually stuff like Bukhis/Apademak/Azdaja which isn't easily low mannalbe by most people, and drops items that lots of people want (+2s as well as emp upgrades). (Yes I know those can dual boxed, but not everyone has the drive/ability to do that)

It's not like linkshell attendance really matters at those lowmannable events, so who are you trying to entice with these optional drops? Why should a WAR have to choose between N.legs and E.body after he blew a thousand KS for a Honey Wine?

Nothing is stopping him from doing a YOYD pickup run on the side, and if he wants both drops then that's probably his best bet.

[Byrth]

Spending your time going to mandatory LS events where you do lowman stuff is what stops you from doing YOYD pickup stuff on the side. People have limited playtime, and time you spend helping other people who are unable to lowman content is time that you don't spend doing things YOYD. The benefit you get (extra drops from other people's orbs) is substantially offset by the cost (not being able to spend your own orbs).

All I'm saying is, most current events are not suited to lowman stuff done as an alliance. For instance, a single party could probably kill Bukhis equally quickly and safely as an alliance. If you're all friends and you have a "~Abyssea~ day" instead of an "Abyssea Event day" then maybe you log on at 6:30 EST and ask in LS, "Anyone need Bukhis items? Dibs on the wings!" Two or three friends help because they're your friends and you've helped them. Three to four people can't kill Bukhis on their own and want cards or stones, or just want something to do. Now you have a safe kill team and a proc team, all of whom you know. You get together and kill a dozen Bukhis over the next four hours, a few people complete AF3+2, you get 20 wings, and you all go to bed. This is how it works in large social linkshells, and it's really preferable in every way to a mandatory Abyssea event.

[Rearden]

So, the people that put in time at other events, Einherjar, Voidwatch, Neo-Dyna, Sea, etc. The people that can't kill Bukhis but show up to everything else and may want a weapon/item/etc. How do they get it, why are they in a linkshell if a linkshell won't assist them in getting it?

I feel weapon runs for a 3-4h event is stupid, but I also think LS support on the weekend outside of event time is a good thing. Enabling those people to realize they can do shit on their own is good, but saying that lowman events are dumb in an LS is a point of view someone who can 2-3box everything.

[Byrth]

If they don't get a weapon in the situation I described, it's because they're never the one calling wings and asking if anyone wants to go kill stuff or because they don't have the 2-3 friends you'd need to get it going. If you're a good player and you help out when people need it, you end up with a few friends you can call on. If you don't, then you don't, and you aren't helpful enough to warrant your linkshell getting you an empyrean.

[Raksha]

Spending your time going to mandatory LS events where you do lowman stuff is what stops you from doing YOYD pickup stuff on the side. People have limited playtime, and time you spend helping other people who are unable to lowman content is time that you don't spend doing things YOYD. The benefit you get (extra drops from other people's orbs) is substantially offset by the cost (not being able to spend your own orbs).

All I'm saying is, most current events are not suited to lowman stuff done as an alliance. For instance, a single party could probably kill Bukhis equally quickly and safely as an alliance. If you're all friends and you have a "~Abyssea~ day" instead of an "Abyssea Event day" then maybe you log on at 6:30 EST and ask in LS, "Anyone need Bukhis items? Dibs on the wings!" Two or three friends help because they're your friends and you've helped them. Three to four people can't kill Bukhis on their own and want cards or stones, or just want something to do. Now you have a safe kill team and a proc team, all of whom you know. You get together and kill a dozen Bukhis over the next four hours, a few people complete AF3+2, you get 20 wings, and you all go to bed. This is how it works in large social linkshells, and it's really preferable in every way to a mandatory Abyssea event.

People do those things in their off-time. There is almost always someone doing some kind of abyssea NM outside of LS events. The reason people like you and I do stuff in large groups (when we would be more productive low manning it for instance) is so that we have a support base when it's time for the Big Game to roll around.

How often have you and your 3-4 friends killed arch-dynamis bosses? (And if you have, i'm betting it was ~66%+ pickup group). We have a solid group of people who know how to 2hr zerg for instance, and we spend some time helping everyone get stuff they want/need.

I suppose one way to get the things you want is to farm dynamis 7 days a week and just buy everything (except ra/ex voidwatch stuff) but I really don't have the patience to do that.

[Mahoro]

Spending your time going to mandatory LS events where you do lowman stuff is what stops you from doing YOYD pickup stuff on the side. People have limited playtime, and time you spend helping other people who are unable to lowman content is time that you don't spend doing things YOYD. The benefit you get (extra drops from other people's orbs) is substantially offset by the cost (not being able to spend your own orbs).

I agree this is a problem in some LS's. We only have official events 3 nights a week, Tues/Thurs/Sat. I'm not sure I could deal with some of the schedules some LS's have.

[Quetzacoatl]

Okay, when did this turn into a KSNM99 thread?

I'd rather read what the topic's about.

[Rearden]

Yes, the DEVs who don't have any concept of Voidwatch

[Nynja]

You are failing to show superior belts so yeah credibility zero. VW fanboy.

This is coming from the guy who used to have a ffxiah comment about how only retards do "ashittea" because they were butthurt about salvage being over.

[Mindi]

I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.

Does the Dev team thinking to solve the real problem with those chests? That you can get the same R/EX item again and again in those Chests?


This is the real annoying part... i don't mind the Trigger system. Getting lights to max is no problem normally (unless its all pup and bst abilitys lol), the NM's are all easy to defeat. The personal chest is not perfect, but this is what they want it to be.. thats fine for me. The only real issue i have with VW - Drop system is that the chest can drop the same R/EX item multiple times. Its no fun getting the Torque on Qillin in 25% of the fights or even worse.. have 3 ppl obtain a total of 11 shoes... i rather have no drop at all instat of the same gear again and again.

So all i woud ask dev's to do about VW drop-system is to stop multiple same-r/ex drops to one person. Like its on Shin.. if all have Torque/Belt/Cape w/e it just never drops. Why cant chest be like that? I doubt that this isnt possible, since they use systems like this on NM's already.

Adding the drops to treasure is pointless, i dont understand why all keep asking for that.. if they wanted it to be like this, they would have made the NM drop one treasure pool, and not personal chests. Plz just remove the multiple-dropping r/ex stuff