[dev1007] Voidwatch: Obtaining Spoils

[Byrth]

Translation: "We're not going to fix the single largest problem with this system, but we're going to make it harder to kill them with pickup groups."

Sorry Camate, the Dev team is wrong about this. Being unable to move individual items to the alliance loot pool is the single largest issue with this system. If you changed it to that, the system would be fine even with its atrocious drop rates.

Kill speed is limited by proc speed. If it takes you 15 minutes to proc out and cap lights regardless of the opponent, then shortening the battle just reduces the time you have to focus on damage and makes the fight harder.

[Yinnyth]

Translation: "We're not going to fix the single largest problem with this system, but we're going to make it harder to kill them with pickup groups."

I must've missed the part where he said existing NMs are going to get harder to kill with pickup groups. You mean the "new chapters" with "tougher challenges"? Yeah, still not seeing any "screw your pickup alliances".

I do however see something which roughly translates as: "No, you can't haz cheezeburger"

[Byrth]

I must've missed the part where he said existing NMs are going to get harder to kill with pickup groups. You mean the "new chapters" with "tougher challenges"? Yeah, still not seeing any "screw your pickup alliances".

I do however see something which roughly translates as: "No, you can't haz cheezeburger"

If you had read the entire post . . .

Kill speed is limited by proc speed. If it takes you 15 minutes to proc out and cap lights regardless of the opponent, then shortening the battle just reduces the time you have to focus on damage and makes the fight harder.

Unless they're going to make it take fewer procs to cap out lights, a straight reduction of HP would make it difficult to cap lights without killing the monster on low tier stuff and hard to kill the monster in time with a pickup group on high tier stuff. Not to mention that you risk of forcing them below 50% HP before capping lights. I was in a pickup alliance that beat the joke that is Akvan with only 30 seconds remaining the other day.

[Yinnyth]

If you had read the entire post . . .



Unless they're going to make it take fewer procs to cap out lights, a straight reduction of HP would make it difficult to cap lights without killing the monster on low tier stuff and hard to kill the monster in time with a pickup group on high tier stuff. Not to mention that you risk of forcing them below 50% HP before capping lights. I was in a pickup alliance that beat the joke that is Akvan with only 30 seconds remaining the other day.

You must not have understood mine. My fault there, I suppose.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle.

Yeah, I still don't see any "screw you" in there. You can interpret it many ways... maybe they'll be reducing the amount of time you're allowed to attempt the battle, so people time out faster... maybe (like you seem to believe) they'll be reducing the HP of the mob... maybe they intend to make weakness hints easier to understand... maybe they'll increase the number of weaknesses a mob has.

There are just as many good ways to read into that as bad. You chose to read it as a bad thing because your mind was already made up by the time you hit that point in Camate's post.

[Byrth]

You must not have understood mine. My fault there, I suppose.

Yeah, I still don't see any "screw you" in there. You can interpret it many ways... maybe they'll be reducing the amount of time you're allowed to attempt the battle, so people time out faster... maybe (like you seem to believe) they'll be reducing the HP of the mob... maybe they intend to make weakness hints easier to understand... maybe they'll increase the number of weaknesses a mob has.

There are just as many good ways to read into that as bad. You chose to read it as a bad thing because your mind was already made up by the time you hit that point in Camate's post.

You're still viewing the dev team through the rose colored glasses of Abyssea. The dev team of yore didn't make things easier. With very few exceptions, they were dedicated to making things harder.

We can wait until this is implemented and have this discussion again, but even assuming they make only beneficial changes it still doesn't address the primary problem of shit drop rates, large member requirements, and personal chests. What do I care if the fight takes 30 minutes instead of 45? It probably took an hour and a half to form the shout alliance and get everyone to camp, and half of the tards will realize they aren't in Abyssea anymore after two fights/wins and warp back to PJ due to unpredictable dog walking emergencies. One fight later we'll have lost so many people that it's time to either restart the process or just warp and log for the night. The worst part is, I'm generally thankful for it to end.

With better incentives or higher drop rates, member retention wouldn't be as much of an issue. As it is, they've followed two big event changes that make way for lowman stuff (Abyssea and Neo-Dynamis) with an event that works best with a full alliance.

[Yinnyth]

You're still viewing the dev team through the rose colored glasses of Abyssea. The dev team of yore didn't make things easier. With very few exceptions, they were dedicated to making things harder.

We can wait until this is implemented and have this discussion again, but even assuming they make only beneficial changes it still doesn't address the primary problem of shit drop rates, large member requirements, and personal chests. What do I care if the fight takes 30 minutes instead of 45? It probably took an hour and a half to form the shout alliance and get everyone to camp, and half of the tards will realize they aren't in Abyssea anymore after two fights/wins and warp back to PJ due to unpredictable dog walking emergencies. One fight later we'll have lost so many people that it's time to either restart the process or just warp and log for the night. The worst part is, I'm generally thankful for it to end.

With better incentives or higher drop rates, member retention wouldn't be as much of an issue. As it is, they've followed two big event changes that make way for lowman stuff (Abyssea and Neo-Dynamis) with an event that works best with a full alliance.

Eh, I've gotta be honest with you about that, actually. I dislike abyssea. I dislike neo-dynamis. I like VW. Note I say "like" and "dislike" though, not "love" and "hate".

Overall, yes, the loot system is a stall tactic. On one extreme end, you do it for eternity and never get anything. On the other extreme end, you find everything you want when you log in. Both extremes are equally deadly to an RPG. The location between those 2 extremes which the VW loot system currently occupies is ok with me. That's really all I can say about it. There is no proof one way or the other that the current system is good or bad, only opinions. My LS is doing ok on VW so far, and we all appear to be happy with it. If an overwhelming number of other LSs have complaints about it... eh, I suppose it really does need to be changed.

And to be perfectly honest, I do appear to be in the minority on these forums.

[scaevola]

You have a forum full of players telling you the problem is loot distribution, but the devs think there's some other problem at work. Well then, what IS the crux of the problem with Voidwatch?

The purpose of an MMORPG feedback forum is to provide for an actual dialogue between players and devs; the idea is that if the devs make a decision the players don't agree with, they have an avenue in which they can explain the thought process behind that decision. If the line of reasoning is justifiable (which it usually is!), the majority of the players will see the logic and accept it. If the FFXI devs are going to make a decision and then send the Community Reps to issue pronouncements without explaining the rationale, why even bother?

As it stands, this forum is a teaser site for the next update.

[Byrth]

I don't even see low drop rates as a stall tactic. At the rate pickup groups do Voidwatch, even the pickup group organizers are in no danger of capping out on drops between Voidwatch updates. If they doubled the drop rates, that would still be the case. I can count on one hand the number of Bastok/Sandy/Windy tier 4 bodies I've seen drop, and I don't need most of my fingers. Body drop rate on Jeuno Tier 3s seems higher, but weapon drop rates on Zilart Tier 3s may be even lower.

This is an event designed for the 18-man shells that we all happily let fall apart a year ago. Barring re-making them, you're kind of stuck not doing Voidwatch (efficiently/at all).

[Mahoro]

I don't even see low drop rates as a stall tactic. At the rate pickup groups do Voidwatch, even the pickup group organizers are in no danger of capping out on drops between Voidwatch updates. If they doubled the drop rates, that would still be the case. I can count on one hand the number of Bastok/Sandy/Windy tier 4 bodies I've seen drop, and I don't need most of my fingers. Body drop rate on Jeuno Tier 3s seems higher, but weapon drop rates on Zilart Tier 3s may be even lower.

This is an event designed for the 18-man shells that *l* happily let fall apart a year ago. Barring re-making them, you're kind of stuck not doing Voidwatch (efficiently/at all).

Fixed for you, but I agree with the overall sentiment. I don't really see the dev team's fear of letting more people get what they want. If they think people will burn through the content and never touch Voidwatch again....well, look at Abyssea. You can "beat" Abyssea in a couple days per job you want to gear. Besides, people will be farming VW for Plates for a long time.

[Zirael]

Translation: "We're not going to fix the single largest problem with this system, but we're going to make it harder to kill them with pickup groups."

Sorry Camate, the Dev team is wrong about this. Being unable to move individual items to the alliance loot pool is the single largest issue with this system. If you changed it to that, the system would be fine even with its atrocious drop rates.

Kill speed is limited by proc speed. If it takes you 15 minutes to proc out and cap lights regardless of the opponent, then shortening the battle just reduces the time you have to focus on damage and makes the fight harder.

Aside from kill speed and proc speed, other things that hinder the flow of these battles is having to go back to town for 3-4 new Voidstones (and cells) and to NPC all the junk clogging your inventory.