[dev1007] Voidwatch: Obtaining Spoils

[blowfin]

The drop rate on almost everything worthwhile is already shit. Would it be so far out of this supposed game plan if the 1 good item that dropped out of 5-20 runs went to someone who actually wanted it? Is the game plan to frustrate people into not even doing the content because they see 2 HQ bodies that they are after drop to the same person who can't even equip it? I'm not saying "add to pool" is the answer but calling it retarded compared to the worst loot system in any game ever made seems pretty silly.

The drop rate in this game for top tier items has always been shit, and that's exactly what we're talking about for VW, current top tier items. Are you some sort of modern day Sherlock Holmes being able to release this golden nugget of information for people? See: Salvage, Kings, Sea, basically the entire end game for the games long history. They're meant to be rare, you're supposed to be extremely lucky or extremely dedicated to get them.

It's actually one of the best loot pool concepts they've put into this game. It does away with the need for people to manage DKP, avoids ninja lotting, avoids drama over items. It's very elegant really. People being butthurt over drop rates doesn't make it a bad loot system. You also have to prise your minds off the vapid concept that you somehow should be entitled to something from someone else's loot pool, when it's clearly been designed as an individual system.

If drop rates suck, they suck, SE will adjust them (like they said actually) if they feel it's the right time and it won't change the game balance too much.

[Nynja]

It's actually one of the best loot pool concepts they've put into this game.

Its the right idea, but implemented very poorly. I've used this example three times allready, and because you clearly dont read the thread, I'll post it again.

You're in salvage...You kill Qiqirn Treasure Hunter...Macha's Coat drops.
Instead of casting lots, so the person who you want to get that rare item that finally dropped after going 0/100...the game randomly assigns it to someone. The person who gets it doesnt even have any mage jobs leveled. The group forces them to hold the macha's coat in storage instead of tossing or storing it.

40 runs later...
You defeat the Qiqirn Treasure Hunter.
You find a Macha's Coat on the Qiqirn Treasure Hunter.
The Macha's Coat was lost...because the game decided to auto-lot it to that person who allready had it.

[Alistaire]

Instead of getting random logs and rocks dozens of times in a row, they should just replace those drops with little man that pops out and punches you square in the dick.

Read this and thought it said "punches Square in the dick"...but then of course a comment like that would just get deleted.

[saevel]

I think you misunderstood. The community pool would effectively be the NORMAL treasure pool. Instead of 16 people dumping their drops in one pool, you get one pool for 16 people to lot on. The private pools would get their own loot from the chest, but would not get access to the treasure pool.

What people fail to see is the math involved with 'adding unwanted drops to the pool for all to lot on'.

If you have 18 people in an alliance, a 1% drop rate becomes (100%-(100%-1%)^18)=16.5%. To compensate for a pool addition drop, SE would then have to drop that 1% droprate to 0.056% droprate. Even less if you take multiple identical drops into account.

The normal loot system has a 1% droprate, but you have to get lucky with outlotting contenders for the same item, or build enough 'favor', dkp or otherwise to get the item, OR invite someone with too much gil to buy the spare item for 2M gil.
The voidwatch system has a 1% droprate. Period. No sharing, no selling, clean.

Except that's not what the game has done before. "Ultra rare" items don't have a 1% drop rate, they have a 5% drop rate (D.Ring). Rare items tend to have a 15~25% drop rate and the rest scaling from there. What SE did was create 18 individual pools, then to prevent people from getting gear too fast they dropped the rates to 1%, less then 1% for some pieces. Unfortunately you have no control over that 1%. Meaning in order for you to get your mexel harness you need to kill it more then 100 times (statistically). If you spammed one NM over and over again it would take you over a month to get those 100+ kills in. This wouldn't be too bad if they were easy quick solo fights, but their big alliance HNM fights. Meaning you need 17 other people who are willing to fight that single fight, several times per day for an entire month. Yeah that ain't gonna happen. So what your really looking at is a 6+ month wait to get the 100+ fights in. If your lucky you get it earlier, if your unlucky you get it sometime in the next year. And that's one item, if you wanted more then one item the multiply your time accordingly.

Voidwatch is a huge skinners box. If you don't know what that is then go educate yourself and look it up. It's current implementation is actually considered unethical. We do the fights just to have them cleared for when SE finally fix's the drop rates, and the ability to teleport everywhere. Honestly I think SE created VW for all the hardcore super LS's to have something to beat their head against the wall. It's for the guys who did Salvage. It's an event that gets your marginally better gear / sidegrades (remember you can buy / craft the NQ versions) but requires an insane amount of effort / luck / time.

[Insaniac]

The drop rate in this game for top tier items has always been shit, and that's exactly what we're talking about for VW, current top tier items. Are you some sort of modern day Sherlock Holmes being able to release this golden nugget of information for people? See: Salvage, Kings, Sea, basically the entire end game for the games long history. They're meant to be rare, you're supposed to be extremely lucky or extremely dedicated to get them.

It's actually one of the best loot pool concepts they've put into this game. It does away with the need for people to manage DKP, avoids ninja lotting, avoids drama over items. It's very elegant really. People being butthurt over drop rates doesn't make it a bad loot system. You also have to prise your minds off the vapid concept that you somehow should be entitled to something from someone else's loot pool, when it's clearly been designed as an individual system.

If drop rates suck, they suck, SE will adjust them (like they said actually) if they feel it's the right time and it won't change the game balance too much.

Best loot pool concept? Do you really believe that? At least in other group based luck of the draw low drop rate loot systems when the shit actually dropped the people who put in the repeated effort were rewarded. Someone could desperately want a coruscanti, kill 300+ Qilins and never see it. Easily. 1000+ is absolutely in the realm of possibility. While the people he shouts for show up like "herp derp what's highly vulnerable mean?" and get the drop. Having no control over loot distribution in a group event is a terrible concept. Having multiple r/e drops go to the same person is an even more terrible concept. Putting items in that system with .2% drop rates compounds the terribleness of the first 2. No NM drop in this game has ever had less than a 1% drop rate and most of the old "top tier gear" was MUCH higher while most of the VW stuff isn't even really worth the effort. A portion of the system may have come from a place of good intent but what it amounts to is "Thanks for trying. Here's your logs. Oh BTW your BRD friend is on his 4th pair of faijin boots that he can't even wear."

[Chimerawizard]

The drop rate in this game for top tier items has always been shit, and that's exactly what we're talking about for VW, current top tier items. Are you some sort of modern day Sherlock Holmes being able to release this golden nugget of information for people? See: Salvage, Kings, Sea, basically the entire end game for the games long history. They're meant to be rare, you're supposed to be extremely lucky or extremely dedicated to get them.

It's actually one of the best loot pool concepts they've put into this game. It does away with the need for people to manage DKP, avoids ninja lotting, avoids drama over items. It's very elegant really. People being butthurt over drop rates doesn't make it a bad loot system. You also have to prise your minds off the vapid concept that you somehow should be entitled to something from someone else's loot pool, when it's clearly been designed as an individual system.

If drop rates suck, they suck, SE will adjust them (like they said actually) if they feel it's the right time and it won't change the game balance too much.

I fully agree with you. I have seen my LS get 7 guns from one t4. I don't think it is that terr

[Chimerawizard]

The drop rate in this game for top tier items has always been shit, and that's exactly what we're talking about for VW, current top tier items. Are you some sort of modern day Sherlock Holmes being able to release this golden nugget of information for people? See: Salvage, Kings, Sea, basically the entire end game for the games long history. They're meant to be rare, you're supposed to be extremely lucky or extremely dedicated to get them.

It's actually one of the best loot pool concepts they've put into this game. It does away with the need for people to manage DKP, avoids ninja lotting, avoids drama over items. It's very elegant really. People being butthurt over drop rates doesn't make it a bad loot system. You also have to prise your minds off the vapid concept that you somehow should be entitled to something from someone else's loot pool, when it's clearly been designed as an individual system.

If drop rates suck, they suck, SE will adjust them (like they said actually) if they feel it's the right time and it won't change the game balance too much.

I fully agree with you. I have seen my LS get 7 guns from one t4. I don't think it is that terrible drop rate. 1% of the time for a rare item? Okay, I can spam this NM a whole lot in a week instead of, say Niddhogg who only spawned like one a week and with crap drop rate. Also, the fact that multiple can drop at the same time(different loot pools) means if it does show in my chest, I don't pass it to someone else. A 5% drop rate /6 ppl is <1%. assuming at least 6 ppl want.

[Raksha]

I fully agree with you. I have seen my LS get 7 guns from one t4. I don't think it is that terrible drop rate. 1% of the time for a rare item? Okay, I can spam this NM a whole lot in a week instead of, say Niddhogg who only spawned like one a week and with crap drop rate. Also, the fact that multiple can drop at the same time(different loot pools) means if it does show in my chest, I don't pass it to someone else. A 5% drop rate /6 ppl is <1%. assuming at least 6 ppl want.

You realize that the gun isn't the rare drop from caelano right?



In about 30 runs my LS still hasn't seen one of these bodies.

[Chimerawizard]

Yes, I realize that. Just the first thing that pop'd in my mind as Tons of drops off a single kill atm. I could give other examples. Numbers weren't that high though. 2-3...

[Insaniac]

You realize that the gun isn't the rare drop from caelano right?



In about 30 runs my LS still hasn't seen one of these bodies.

My LS has never seen one either. Probably in the ballpark of 30 runs as well.