[dev1017]* Dancer Support/Healing Redux Idea (also /Dnc suggestions)

[Deadvinta]

Am I to assume that silence would become a dancer's greatest enemy now because you want it changed to magic skill based instead of it's actual concept which is a tp/melee based healer/support class? You just gimped healing waltz btw, how am i going to remove silence to cast utsusemi if silence affects my waltzes? I may as well level whm. Or do you assume that it would be the exception to the rule and silence wouldn't affect it's magic? I'll take an order of pure absurdity, thanks.

Oh god. I already hate having paralyze and/or Amnesia. I would hate to have to fear Silence, too.

[Eri]

Am I to assume that silence would become a dancer's greatest enemy now because you want it changed to magic skill based instead of it's actual concept which is a tp/melee based healer/support class? You just gimped healing waltz btw, how am i going to remove silence to cast utsusemi if silence affects my waltzes? I may as well level whm. Or do you assume that it would be the exception to the rule and silence wouldn't affect it's magic? I'll take an order of pure absurdity, thanks.

You are to assume ppl Ignore your Post, as i would have. With being Spells cast without consuming MP (Nin / Brd)
Dances would neither and my idea of changeing it to Magic? strange SE stated it was a of Magic way back as stated in the OP already.

[Zyeriis]

You are to assume ppl Ignore your Post, as i would have. With being Spells cast without consuming MP (Nin / Brd)
Dances would neither and my idea of changeing it to Magic? stange SE stated it was a of Magic way back as stated in the OP already.

I'm unsure what you just said but, nin and brd spells are affected by silence, I made no mention of mp. Do you not consider job abilities such as rampart, mijin gakure, spirit link, and the like to be of magical properties? None of these are based upon magic skill, every and only thing affected by magic skills are affected by silence (and mute for that matter). There are no exceptions to this. Making DNC's primary abilities rely on magic skill would gimp the job not help it. As for the advantages of dnc as a main? There are tons. The same reason you take a WHM over a RDM (Cure 5 and 6) when RDM only have Cure IV (which you can get from a sub job) applies here. DNC > /DNC, WHM > /WHM, RDM > /RDM (/RDM45 doesn't have Cure IV). Did I mention that Healing Magic skill has almost no affect on how much you cure for? It does have some effect (a few hp) but it's laughable really. The same logic applies to the formula used for waltzes, they are only slightly less powerful when used as a sub but, if dnc is used as your main, then you get higher tier versions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with DNC or /DNC.

[Eri]

I'm unsure what you just said but, nin and brd spells are affected by silence, I made no mention of mp. Do you not consider job abilities such as rampart, mijin gakure, spirit link, and the like to be of magical properties? None of these are based upon magic skill, every and only thing affected by magic skills are affected by silence (and mute for that matter). There are no exceptions to this. Making DNC's primary abilities rely on magic skill would gimp the job not help it. As for the advantages of dnc as a main? There are tons. The same reason you take a WHM over a RDM (Cure 5 and 6) when RDM only have Cure IV (which you can get from a sub job) applies here. DNC > /DNC, WHM > /WHM, RDM > /RDM (/RDM45 doesn't have Cure IV). Did I mention that Healing Magic skill has almost no affect on how much you cure for? It does have some effect (a few hp) but it's laughable really. The same logic applies to the formula used for waltzes, they are only slightly less powerful when used as a sub but, if dnc is used as your main, then you get higher tier versions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with DNC or /DNC.

The Idea of dance being Magic isnt mine. Check on what SE wrote on introduceing the Job way back.
And that Sambas To not increase in Effect by any means is also a Fact as for /dnc Landing debuffs withe same potency as a Mainjob its fairly uncommon.
Or would you land a debuff as a /nin haveing no Ninjutsu skill? It makes perfectly no sense.

Slightly less Powerful? a BLM/DNC clould selfcure being slightly less useful on that self cureig.
A DNC/BLM could nuke and would not be only limited by the Spells they would get they would be horribly gimp.
so y would 1 Job have no Skill in their own Profession?
...Just saying.

I dont even get started on all jobs have a 300% TP Pool but only some have MP that Argument would be silly.
But atm this discussion moves along that Level.

[Byrth]

Dual Wield doesn't cap at 50%. There, now your thread was worthwhile and you learned something.

[Alkalinehoe]

Dual Wield doesn't cap at 50%. There, now your thread was worthwhile and you learned something.

and idk how he is hitting upwards of 50% DW without sacrificing major haste spots (Like Nusku's for Twilight).

[Zetonegi]

Slightly less Powerful? a BLM/DNC clould selfcure being slightly less useful on that self cureig.
A DNC/BLM could nuke and would not be only limited by the Spells they would get they would be horribly gimp.

First off a BLM/DNC will straight up cure half as much as a DNC/anything(assuming same VIT and CHR totals).

Second, the only differences between a BLM and a DNC/BLM nuking with the same tier nukes(no gear) would be the BLM has a higher native int, high MAB from traits, and will get less resists/spell interruptions.

Third, did you think this through? Lets suppose for a moment DNC does become based on skill AND there is gear for it.
Now remember to macro it in on EVERYTHING oh but keep the trait specific ones on for this particular dance. Oh and welcome to partial resists and full resists. This actually hurts DNC main more than it hurts /DNC because /DNC is really only used for sambas and waltzes. Steps and finishing moves are a cute bonus but sambas and waltzes are why you use it as a sub. Waltzes are already gimped if you're /DNC in ADDITION to the bonuses DNC gets to them through gear and DNC main also gets gear for sambas(and the bonus finishing move for applying steps). And be glad you don't have some stupid skill to keep capped because(little known fact) skilling up stuff like Enhancing or Healing Magic is a bit of a pain. And don't think you'll get 1 skill for all your dances You can have a skill for steps, a skill for waltzes, a skill for sambas, and then a skill for flourishes. And before you say that's ridiculous, remember, mages have a skill for healing, a skill for enfeebling, a skill for enhancing, a skill for nuking, a skill for divine(Red Mage has this skill with no native spells because Dia became enfeebling magic),which is like elemental magic, enfeebling magic, and enhancing magic, a skill for dark, which is like elemental magic, enfeebling magic, and enhancing magic. In fact lets just make them be Healing, Enfeebling, and Enhancing magic because why add new skills when its doing the same thing as already existing ones?

[Eri]

First off a BLM/DNC will straight up cure half as much as a DNC/anything(assuming same VIT and CHR totals).

Second, the only differences between a BLM and a DNC/BLM nuking with the same tier nukes(no gear) would be the BLM has a higher native int, high MAB from traits, and will get less resists/spell interruptions.

Third, did you think this through? Lets suppose for a moment DNC does become based on skill AND there is gear for it.
Now remember to macro it in on EVERYTHING oh but keep the trait specific ones on for this particular dance. Oh and welcome to partial resists and full resists. This actually hurts DNC main more than it hurts /DNC because /DNC is really only used for sambas and waltzes. Steps and finishing moves are a cute bonus but sambas and waltzes are why you use it as a sub. Waltzes are already gimped if you're /DNC in ADDITION to the bonuses DNC gets to them through gear and DNC main also gets gear for sambas(and the bonus finishing move for applying steps). And be glad you don't have some stupid skill to keep capped because(little known fact) skilling up stuff like Enhancing or Healing Magic is a bit of a pain. And don't think you'll get 1 skill for all your dances You can have a skill for steps, a skill for waltzes, a skill for sambas, and then a skill for flourishes. And before you say that's ridiculous, remember, mages have a skill for healing, a skill for enfeebling, a skill for enhancing, a skill for nuking, a skill for divine(Red Mage has this skill with no native spells because Dia became enfeebling magic),which is like elemental magic, enfeebling magic, and enhancing magic, a skill for dark, which is like elemental magic, enfeebling magic, and enhancing magic. In fact lets just make them be Healing, Enfeebling, and Enhancing magic because why add new skills when its doing the same thing as already existing ones?

Intresting considdering im near cap /on all my Jobs) on all my Skills excepions are parrying and guarding (which are a bit of a pain),

the Chr and Vit mods are be it sub do not make you cure for half as mutch even if the formula as /job has a changed modifier.

Now here we see real lazyness, Blue Mage was added, does it use Healing, Enfeebling and Elemental respectively?
Not it got a Blue Magic Skill, by you argumentation NIN wouldn't need a Ninjutsu skill either, just baseing everything on existing Skills, but that simply does not work out.... as mutch as the only stat based modifiers as main or sub dnc do not work out really. Why is that? Sambas are not affected by any stat bonus that i know of.

Lets say Sambas were Chr based, so the potency on Main and sub would respetively rise, equally to the extra bit of Chr you get each Level. Considdering diffrent Chr modiefiers by Main and Sub and haveing the Most Potent one overwrite any other Samba just in that Party.

Now you say there is Samba augmenting Gear. There's 2 Options i know of of which none aguments potency whatsoever. Dancer's Tiara/+1 (extends the duration of sambas by 30 seconds if worn while casting) and the Empirean Attire +2
occ. cauiseing Double Dmg on Meele Strikes. Which both do not change Sambas Potency at all.

In Addition there are a few Ability influenced by Magic Acc. and M.AB respectively. Violent Flourish's Stun effect proc being affected by m.acc.
And sadly enought Aeolian Edge which is strongly influenced by M.AB and M.ACC
I probaly forgot some here. So there are Abilitys that are considderd Magic but have no native skill to come up with.

Party of the Blue Macig Spells are also modified by M.AB since the job has a Magic Skill to them thats cool whatsoever. But y are Physical Blu Spells modified buy ACC and ATTACK then? Does that make any sense? you can say its Physical Spells you speak of. I would argue why a 'spell' would use meele affiliated Modifiers.
So Dances and stuff could indeed be of a magical Nature but affected by meele
affiliated things thats correct? So if thats the fact why isnt there anything like a 'Dancing Skill'? Makes no Sense.

To the resist Point ... Self buffs canot be resisted in any way. Offensive actions like steps or stun(vf) could be resisted to a degree. Thats like if you miss a step(acc mainly) or your violent fourish stun doesnt take effect(m.acc), solution throw acc or m.acc at it (i do that already to Stun)
So to a degree Dancer abilitys act like some Blu spells already.

If its not Magic we are looking at here what is it then?

So its already at the Point where Dancers Main or sub can benefit for Acc and M.acc
so your Argumentation is: No im lazy i don't wanna level a new Skill ? Cause its not easy?

[Eeek]

So its already at the Point where Dancers Main or sub can benefit for Acc and M.acc
so your Argumentation is: No im lazy i don't wanna level a new Skill ? Cause its not easy?

No. Because it's pointless.

DNC does have issues, but a lack of 'Dancing Skill' is not one of them.

[Eri]

Your Sambas do not increase in Potency by any means. Thast not an Issue then?
Dancer subjob is doind steps and stuff at the same potency thats no issue?

Spilting timers to a degree help the job but does not change the imbalance betwwen dnc sub and other subs

this isnt a Dancer only Problem.
Seriously i do like that splitting timers thing, but couldnt i just sub whm or sch for the status cures?
And cure with waltzes if needed?
As opposed to i canÄt do anything to enhance Samba or debuff potency?

The overall to high recast times outside of status cures are an Issue.
Potency of Sambas and Steps are as mutch.