[dev1017]* Dancer Support/Healing Redux Idea (also /Dnc suggestions)

[Korpg]

As the for ppl subbing dnc. Some ppl do that only for solo.
Sometimes you come accross ppl that are like: ' /dnc ! i dont trust the healer, rather be able to cure my self.' you can find such things in Partys.

If they don't trust the healer, then why are they in that party? If I didn't trust my WHMs so much, I would ask them to go as a different job and be WHM myself. Although, I don't trust my WHM that much either, but that is lack of experience than ability.

So in some occasions you can keep telling ppl like: 'Dude you could be doing Tons of more Dmg on another Sub' and you can excpect either thing happens.

1. They are listening and swiching that sub out. (soooo unlikely)

2. They say: '....And lose my exp chain here and Abys? Hell no!' (Abyssea only)

3. They go like: 'Don't tell me how to play my Job!'

4. You get ignored.

Keep those that do number 1, kick the person who does number 2, kick and blacklist the person who does number 3, kick the person who does number 4 and tell your linkshell about it, make sure you laugh at them and bonus points for shouting around the area you are in about how gimp they are, that would really get their attention then.

Well Dancer healing is somwhat limited to how much dmg you Pt would take (considdering long recasts)... by 75 if you had a Coli-Burn ~ if it was a good Group you could go like: DD/nin DD/nin DNC BRD BRD COR/WHM get the same or better exp then a normal Group.

But for the average group Dancer as a mainheal was a no-go in most cases, so you depend on ppl takeing not a lot dmg or have 1 person soak it up to pull that up.
(Dancer can only Spot Heal afterall)

Why do you think a WHM, RDM, or SCH would make better healers in party situations, or at least larger party situations?

DNCs can mainheal at most (in my opinion) 4 other people, and thats pushing it (in other words, depends on the skill of the Dancer). Anything greater than 4 people, get a WHM. There are lots of them out there, just find one.

As many ppl mentioned Dancer was designed to keep also the subjob utility in mind... they gave a bit of the subjob usability to /dnc in case of Dual weild.

I think they gave Dual Wield to DNCs so they don't always have to go /NIN to do so. But again, that is my opinion, I don't know why they gave Dual Wield to DNCs if the basis of their abilities was TP (and how much they can gain). I would have given DNCs Store TP instead of Dual Wield, but thats me.

Example of what 'could happen':
So Your in al lvl 50ish exp situation for whatever reason... maybe you wanna get Conquest points or something. Doesn't matter y.

So you ask ppl for Party and theres not a whole lot on seek.

You get a Pld, Some half asleep Drk, a Blu/Dnc, a War, a Dnc (who will only samba and Ws) and a Smn.
You took what you could cause you don't have a lot time to Seek!
You have Only like 2 Hours to Party gotta work next day!

The Blu is /Dnc for DW as thu /Nin would be a higher tier DW...

Your wont bother asking ppl to swich to go get exp while you are on limited time.

The party blows obviously! (You figured as mutch i guess)

So as the Dnc uses Sambas the Blu would get a kind of Bonus for no useing them.
Like +50 Attack or something (make it BIG lol should be less.), no idea what that Bonus would be but it would have to be noticeable.

A noticeable Bonus to justfy subjob Dancer in Party. Hell yes .
Because right now it for soloing and lowmanning and farming in cases but has no use as a subjob in a Party other then Gimping Dmg and disturbing Sambas.

If I saw that BLU subbing DNC and his reason was for Dual Wield, I would drop him and get another DD. Maybe one that wouldn't be so stupid. You can learn a lot about a player by what subjob and reasoning behind that subjob is. If they don't care enough to make the party work, why are they looking for a party? Or playing a Massive Multi-Player Online game???

I personally would not accept /dnc in party for any reason but you ocassionally just end up with something and you have to deal with it.

If that is all you have, then don't invite the noob and go with 5 people. Nothing says you have to have a party of six players to start a party.

And i would like such a bonus (or a bonus along the lines of that) for not useing Two Sambas for 3 reasons.

1. Give them a good reason not to do it.

2. Helping an otherwise bad Party setup out a bit.

3. Getting rid of the Overwriting in another way.

And seriously dont ask me WHY ppl go to exp with a crappy SJ hell if i knew lol.
I seen i a few of times thu. It happens.

If you are the leader, and you invite that player to the party with that crappy subjob and you didn't ask for them to change to a better subjob, then the reason why that party sucks is because you are a bad leader. Not that one player's fault, but your own. Grow some balls and either kick that player or find a replacement for him pronto. Still kick that player because they refuse to learn how this game is played.

And yes, I'm a little aggressive on this post. That is because you HAVE to realize that if you don't take action, noobs will stay as noobs and your parties would suck period. Absolutely NO REASON why any melee should /DNC in a party. NONE AT ALL. Either have a WHM who will cast haste on you while curing you, or find a real DNC. If the melee wants to go as /DNC, then they can solo their levels themselves.

[Eri]

*a bit offtopic*

I may would've acted like in kicking ppl if this whole game was in a better state but as it is...

Just no. New ppl miss out on learning their Jobs on their way to 75 since either Smn Burns of Abyssea alike. I been around here for a long while. Had 9 Jobs by 75 cap.
I reduced that to 4 since i was in the opinion that i wouldnt be able to keep on supplying all my Jobs with the Gear needed.

If i get a random tell and some lower lvl Player asks me something i'm happy since it shows that some ppl still want to do things right.

And kicking ppl from Partys is totally against that, of course in some cases it unavoidable to keep everyone happy. Everyone can learn to play their Job in a way the party can benefit from it... eventually.

Some ppl may say getting everything for 1 Job is 'grinding' but i don't wanna see it that way. Everytime you are playing on a Job you get a bit better you gain experince in doing stuff. Therefore i liked lvling the old long way. I liked CoP on levelcap too!

So MAYBE its just me. But kicking someone who doesn't know how to Act in partyplay is just like ignorant i think. I'm Happy enought if someone wants to party at a low Level and not leech exp OR Level in Qufim only!

So i'm in the opinion that SE sould support ppl that actually Level 'the old Way' (which is probably hard nowadays) and add Abilitys that help good and bad partysetups alike, to keep ppl playing outside of 'Abys Onry'.

and im fond of things that take a while... ( NOT Trail of the Magians ~ i do it its boreing)

However SE goes a way where ppl are driven to Level fast and not learn what they are doing. A Lot of stuff i lost intrest in like Dymamis (did that 6 Years) and it was tactical and challengeing! Now its just mindless.... now let proc a Silly !!! and Stuff.
Once ppl come out of Abyssea some will be like: no its to hard can't play this.

Now im not saying 'Don't level anything you can't play' but i do say ppl should have a chance to learn to play a job from someone who did it a while and is good at it. Yes that goes to the older Players... swich to Mentor sometime!

So let me list what i would love to see in a short pregnant way:

1. Ppl that have a Chance to Level and learn their Jobs.
(dont think anyone learns from kicking!)
2. Abilitys that help 'bad setups' to play as they are. (All better than leeching!)
3. Older Players that give advice as needed.
4. Some fixes to Dancer that are not solo by party related.
5. No more Dancers that wear (Kila+2 'Evasion') that sooo does not help the pt.

Thats kind of a wishlist now back to the topic.

*On Topic*

I'll think of a better way better than Skill that still keeps the balance and allows dancer to play in a Party. As it is the Job has very few Party uses outside of a rather limited supporting factor, its ok for sub healer, don't say its a DD, it can but is limited on that too. But i would think BRD and SMN could both be as if not more benefical in their own ways. Outside of the merrited Haste Samba and the Skillchain options (talking about things noone does), dancers dont have a whole lot to contribute to a Party at least nothing that can't be coverd by another Job (aside from Ability Hase which only matters if Spell Haste would be capped). Im happy about every great Idea!

[hiko]

no to dnc skill because it will make it a totally useless sub.
with stupid sub skill you wont be able to land a single step on anything EP +, so you wont be able to use any flourish (no FM if cant land steps)

And honestly, only morons you find in pick up groups /DNC. Anytime I do shout for something and someone comes melee/dnc, I tell them to use a real sub or dont bother taking them.

if you have >2people meleing and not capped in delay reduction having one /dnc haste sambaing is a bigger increase in dmg than any other sub

[Korpg]

no to dnc skill because it will make it a totally useless sub.
with stupid sub skill you wont be able to land a single step on anything EP +, so you wont be able to use any flourish (no FM if cant land steps)


if you have >2people meleing and not capped in delay reduction having one /dnc haste sambaing is a bigger increase in dmg than any other sub

If you have 2 people or more meleeing and are not capped in delay reduction, either get a real dancer or have somebody cast haste on you. That would be much better than having one person subbing dancer and lowering their damage output.