[dev1017]* Dancer Support/Healing Redux Idea (also /Dnc suggestions)

[Malamasala]

I support "Skill over cap" dancing skill implementation. I always want to spread the misery to more jobs so that SE gets more complaints about it. I can imagine it in practice. DNC having to macro in 8 pieces of +skill gear each time they do a JA, so that they get any kind of bonus.

[AyinDygra]

Your Sambas do not increase in Potency by any means. Thast not an Issue then?
Dancer subjob is doind steps and stuff at the same potency thats no issue?

First off, we get higher tier sambas for that increase in potency. Secondly, I don't see steps/samba/flourish potency being the same on main and support job as an "issue". Did you ever think they are balanced to the strength that SE thinks is proper for their TP cost and finishing move requirements? Any less probably wouldn't be worth using.

Plus, you lose a lot of time using abilities (our bane is ability delay due to all of our abilities)... Dancer gets gear that makes those more worth using. While some steps can be useful while soloing (Box step, maybe), steps are mainly for Violent Flourish when fighting ancient magic casters and Reverse Flourish to gain TP; we get 2 finishing moves per step, while support job only gets 1... that's a huge nerf for any support /dnc, because they don't gain TP out of using reverse flourish, so steps are purely an expense for their effect, rather than a means to do more. If they made Violent Flourish any less accurate, I'd question if it's worth the time lost doing steps to build finishing moves to "rarely" (the rate you seem to expect from a support job's skill level) stun when we need it. (the only really useful reason for the flourishes on support job.)

Spilting timers to a degree help the job but does not change the imbalance betwwen dnc sub and other subs

this isnt a Dancer only Problem.
Seriously i do like that splitting timers thing, but couldnt i just sub whm or sch for the status cures?
And cure with waltzes if needed?

I would never use white mage or scholar support jobs on Dancer. We're not mages, we need to melee to use our core abilities. If we're casting status cures, we're using up whatever limited MP we get from /whm. When we run out of that mana, we can't just go rest and fulfill our main duties. So, either we get refreshed (doubtful) or use Aspir Samba (instead of the Haste Samba everyone expects from us usually?) That's just not practical. Plus, we need to use our melee support jobs as much as any other Damage Dealer out there hitting the enemy.

As opposed to i can't do anything to enhance Samba or debuff potency?

The overall to high recast times outside of status cures are an Issue.
Potency of Sambas and Steps are as mutch.

I wouldn't mind a way to increase the potency of our steps, but keep in mind that as a support job, steps are already nerfed as I said above, only giving 1 Finishing Move. Sambas can simply be new tiers that aren't available to /dnc.


An overall thought about Dancer's concept:
Job abilities are not spells. There's a reason SE designed them as Job Abilities (it would have been just as easy to make them spells and make use of the existing magic types for each of their effects potency/durations).

Lots of things that are not magic are called "magic" in lore. I like to think that Dances are one of those things that simply create effects in those watching or allow greater attacks due to positioning as the enemy "dances" with us. Waltzes making people "feel better", Sambas cheer them up and encouraging them to attack faster (people automatically move along with music and dance, even babies respond before being taught!). Box step mesmerizes enemies, taking their attention away from their defenses, perhaps even increasing our attack power as we strike along with the proper step when we get closer to the enemy's weak areas. The Animated Flourish acts similar to a matador's cape provocation while Violent Flourish is an attack so vicious that it leaves the enemy stunned.

It all seems very physical to me.

[Amanie]

well if you want a dancing skill, i would want more dancing "spells" to go with it.

but before the dancing skill is fully thought out and implemented. why not wait to 99 and t3 merits to see if we need to increase potency on anything

who knows:
samba potency merits - that stack with haste samba merits
step potency merits - perhaps
waltz recast or even potency
anything else that will make thf and nin green with envy

[Eri]

However Merrit's only apply to a Main and Sambas should like gain potency by increaseing lvl and stats for a subjob too shouln't they?
As the Waltz Potency % cap is 30% (testing in Abys with Atma and Gear) and thats obtainable right now without any Atmas, Potency will most likely not happen. For the rest yes i'd be in for that though Samba/Step Potency/Acc should vary by lvl main or sub in my Opinion.

[Nynja]

Are you seriously comparing dnc to brd?

Heres another comparison, infinite survivability:
dnc heals via TP
brd couldnt solo a wet paper bag

[Eeek]

However Merrit's only apply to a Main and Sambas should like gain potency by increaseing lvl and stats for a subjob too shouln't they?
As the Waltz Potency % cap is 30% (testing in Abys with Atma and Gear) and thats obtainable right now without any Atmas, Potency will most likely not happen. For the rest yes i'd be in for that though Samba/Step Potency/Acc should vary by lvl main or sub in my Opinion.

DNC's Sambas already gain 'potency' over Melee/DNC via increasing levels:

DNC can use Drain Samba III. /DNC is limited to Drain Samba II.
DNC can use Aspir Samba II. /DNC is limited to Aspir Samba I.
DNC's Haste Samba grants 10% JA Haste with 5/5 merits. /DNC Haste Samba is limited to 5% JA Haste.

DNC's Sambas, when used with Dancer's Tiara, last 30 seconds longer than Sambas from /DNCs.

DNC's AF3+2 Set Bonus allows DNC to occasionally deal double damage with an active Samba, and that's the case a majority of the time. A /DNC melee can't do that.

DNC's Waltzes also already gain 'potency' over Melee/DNC via increasing levels and through the Waltz formula:

Melee/DNC is limited to Curing Waltz III. DNC, though, has access to Curing Waltz V.
Melee/DNC is limited to Divine Waltz I. DNC, though, has access to Divine Waltz II.

DNC has access to more Waltz Potency gear than /DNC melees.

As for Steps, DNC has access to several pieces of "Increases Step Accuracy" gear. /DNC melees don't have access to that gear. Also, /DNC melees can't use Feather Step.

Melee/DNC are limited to one Finishing Move per Step. DNC get two Finishing Moves per Step, and if they use Presto, DNC can get three Finishing Moves per Step. By way of merits and Charis Bangles +1/+2, DNC sees much higher TP returns from Reverse Flourish than /DNC melees and DNC can build 5 Finishing Moves with only 2 Steps.

With Etoile Casaque, DNC's Violent Flourishes are inherently more accurate than a Melee/DNC's Violent Flourish.

With Dancer's Toe Shoes and Etoile Tights, a DNC's Spectral Jig is boosted from 30 seconds to 90 seconds. A /DNC melee is limited to a 30 second Spectral Jig and /DNC does not have access to Chocobo Jig.

Should I continue?

EDIT: Continuing!

Here's a list of DNC's Job Traits*, all of which are more potent than those granted by /DNC:

Dual Wield IV
Subtle Blow IV
Accuracy Bonus III
Evasion Bonus III
Skillchain Bonus IV
Critical Attack Bonus II
Resist Slow
Conserve TP
Tactical Parry
Closed Position (via merits)

That's insane!

*Note: I nabbed the Job Traits list off the Wiki. It may or may not be incorrect.

[Eri]

DNC's Sambas already gain 'potency' over Melee/DNC via increasing levels:

DNC can use Drain Samba III. /DNC is limited to Drain Samba II.
DNC can use Aspir Samba II. /DNC is limited to Aspir Samba I.
DNC's Haste Samba grants 10% JA Haste with 5/5 merits. /DNC Haste Samba is limited to 5% JA Haste.

DNC's Sambas, when used with Dancer's Tiara, last 30 seconds longer than Sambas from /DNCs.

DNC's AF3+2 Set Bonus allows DNC to occasionally deal double damage with an active Samba, and that's the case a majority of the time. A /DNC melee can't do that.

DNC's Waltzes also already gain 'potency' over Melee/DNC via increasing levels and through the Waltz formula:

Melee/DNC is limited to Curing Waltz III. DNC, though, has access to Curing Waltz V.
Melee/DNC is limited to Divine Waltz I. DNC, though, has access to Divine Waltz II.

DNC has access to more Waltz Potency gear than /DNC melees.

As for Steps, DNC has access to several pieces of "Increases Step Accuracy" gear. /DNC melees don't have access to that gear. Also, /DNC melees can't use Feather Step.

Melee/DNC are limited to one Finishing Move per Step. DNC get two Finishing Moves per Step, and if they use Presto, DNC can get three Finishing Moves per Step. By way of merits and Charis Bangles +1/+2, DNC sees much higher TP returns from Reverse Flourish than /DNC melees and DNC can build 5 Finishing Moves with only 2 Steps.

With Etoile Casaque, DNC's Violent Flourishes are inherently more accurate than a Melee/DNC's Violent Flourish.

With Dancer's Toe Shoes and Etoile Tights, a DNC's Spectral Jig is boosted from 30 seconds to 90 seconds. A /DNC melee is limited to a 30 second Spectral Jig and /DNC does not have access to Chocobo Jig.

Should I continue?

EDIT: Continuing!

Here's a list of DNC's Job Traits*, all of which are more potent than those granted by /DNC:

Dual Wield IV
Subtle Blow IV
Accuracy Bonus III
Evasion Bonus III
Skillchain Bonus IV
Critical Attack Bonus II
Resist Slow
Conserve TP
Tactical Parry
Closed Position (via merits)

That's insane!

*Note: I nabbed the Job Traits list off the Wiki. It may or may not be incorrect.

I seriously do not see y your posting that: Tell you what. Other jobs get diffrent Spells ( I II III so on) of one kind.
but these are still affected. By skill and gear in their potency to a degree.
Anything above Waltz 3 is highly unpratcical due to recast times. (other topic thu)

Party problem:
Answer that: Has Haste Sambas Potency increased since 75? (outside of Merrits)

Summoners Avatars favor for exaple gain Potency via Gear and Skill.
Bards Songs (even marches) gain potency by skill and Gear. (theres 2 marches. Thats not the diffrence because victory march gained ~2% haste since 75 via skill and increased stats. its compareable since its both AoE party only buffs.

And to the person that want to mentioned solo: Don't care this is a MMO.

Noone EVER compared the Jobs... i Compared Haste samba to Victory March,
i think your trolling thu.

[Kimble]

Someone telling you you're wrong, giving you reasons why you are wrong and that has a difference of opinion then you, is not a troll.

[Eri]

No he didn't say i was wrong. hes telling me i compared the Jobs. Which i did not ever.
I compared 2 things with that had a similar effect by but do not have now.
Then compareing soloability in an MMO.

So its totally annoying to see~ if i compare 2 PT buff abilitys that are similar have by 75 standarts,
and are not any longer.

Thats what then? anyway. back to Topic pls.

[Kimble]

Well if you choose to compare March to Haste Samba, I choose to rather compare Haste Samba to Haste spell.