[dev1017]* Dancer Support/Healing Redux Idea (also /Dnc suggestions)

[Kimble]

So, if your skill starts at 0 even if you are a 90 dnc, how would you "learn" your waltz, sambas etc? Would you make it like other magic jobs? Where you have to be the current level in order to learn the spell to use it?

Would there be a negative for having low skill when using a waltz or samba?

DNC is a DD support job. Which is why it was made the way it was. Instead of looking at it like "If I want to be as good as bard" look at it more like "If I want to be as good as NIN, THF, etc" which are gear depended jobs.

[AyinDygra]

Sadly, the only logic I see here is: "Make it worse for them!" I really have to wonder what prompted this supposed "need" to have new skill levels to impact Job Ability potency/durations (something that is handled on a JA by JA basis for other jobs) Such as:

Sneak Attack was nerfed as /thf (because people saw war/thf and drk/thf and sam/thf as more desirable with that ability.) They didn't add a new "Thievery combat skill" to determine sneak attack damage & other thief job ability potency/durations.

Berserk is full power on /war (should Warrior have "Rage skill") and Focus and Dodge are full power on /mnk (should they make them based on "Years of Martial Arts Training skill"?) Notice that in each job ability's case, they have gear that increases their Job Ability potency/durations, and/or partially removes drawbacks.

Those are just a couple examples on both sides on how SE deals with Job Abilities.

As I said in the first paragraph of my reply, I don't see Dancers in danger of being replaced by /dnc, nor are we in competition with them except in events like Campaign. The only way I could see SE "nerfing" the /dnc support job would be if people suddenly replaced us with /dnc.

If that's not your logic, and you mean to say this skill will give Dancers a boost in all of these abilities due to having skill in it now, how much of a boost do you think Dancers need over their current potencies and durations?

When someone is out soloing with /dnc, I hope they get as much use out of it as possible, up to the support job level they have access to (notice, they moved Curing Waltz III down to support job level, so they want it used in that way). They're already limited on Jigs with super short durations without our gear. Sambas don't last as long, so they cost more TP, and take more time to keep up.

There are many ways to improve Dancer Main, so I see no reason to hurt the support job's functionality.

If SE really wanted to make sure we don't compete with one another in making use of all of our abilities, they should look into the concept of choreography.

Job Trait: Choreography
Level 50
Increase Potency and/or Duration of Steps, Sambas and Flourishes when two or more Dancers use the same abilities against the same target. (steps already function in this way, building on existing steps, this Trait would extend this concept.)

For a simple example: Two dancers (one Dancer Main, the other /dnc) using the same type of samba (different tiers)... now, with the Choreography Job Trait, instead of one overwriting the other... they gain a boosted effect! Dancer Main is benefited, Dancer support job isn't hurt. (Two /dnc would not have this effect, so it remains a bonus for having a Dancer main in the party.)
Conflicting sambas would be an issue of communication. Either the party wants one or the other, not both. (since only 1 samba can be active)

[Eeek]

Don't care if its lvl 0 to begin with ... that lvls by playing the Job if you dont wanna play it y lvl it to begin with?

I dont see that Gear being as useful and i personally would not have room for it also y would a Dancer would need Gear
and plase stop trolling and not reading the topic ' If you want...' thats a general fault in the job and not 'If i want', If i want to be a good Brd i do lvl my Skills. If i want to be a good dnc i get Gear for it? No Thanks really. Lol on a Serious Note Read the OP before replying. Nothing in you Post is benefical at all.

and no Dancer cant do it again read the Op lol at ppl speaking before reading.

Edit: And btw y would dnc need Gear to exceed a Subjob Dancer for anythin with other Jobs dont needing it?

I'm not trolling. I'm disagreeing with you. There's a world of difference.

Also, DNC's abilities already surpass those of a Melee/DNC. Additional gear enhances said JAs even further. You seem to be against the idea of DNC using gear that augments Job Abilities and Job Traits, but every job has accesss to such gear, especially on the AF1, AF2, and AF3 sets.

The job's main fault is not a lack of Dancing Skill. A properly-geared DNC's abilities are already more potent and reliable than Melee/DNC, and I see no reason to potentially weaken a nice subjob or waste development time implementing a 'Dancing Skill' system that's not even needed. Everything you want to do with 'Dancing Skill' can already be done through gear.

Yes, if you want to be a good DNC, you do need to get gear for it. This holds true for all jobs, not just DNC.

Finally, DNC's main problem is it's universal Waltz timer.

[Daremo]

Dear. God. No.

As one who plays Dnc main and /dnc at every opportunity, I think this is a horrible idea. /dnc is already horribly gimped if you're used to playing Dnc main. The waltz calculation gives you a much lower cap, Haste Samba only gives you 50% of what you're used to, you're limited to Drain Samba II, you can only gain one Finishing Move per Step, and Reverse Flourish is capped at 60.

Gear is the only advantage? Please.

Haste Samba being weaker than Marches is NOT a fault in the job, that's how it was intended to be.

[Alkalinehoe]

Don't care if its lvl 0 to begin with ... that lvls by playing the Job if you dont wanna play it y lvl it to begin with?

I dont see that Gear being as useful and i personally would not have room for it also y would a Dancer would need Gear
and plase stop trolling and not reading the topic ' If you want...' thats a general fault in the job and not 'If i want', If i want to be a good Brd i do lvl my Skills. If i want to be a good dnc i get Gear for it? No Thanks really. Lol on a Serious Note Read the OP before replying. Nothing in you Post is benefical at all.

and no Dancer cant do it again read the Op lol at ppl speaking before reading.

Edit: And btw y would dnc need Gear to exceed a Subjob Dancer for anythin with other Jobs dont needing it?

If you think gear isn't important for DNC then ur doing it wrong.

[Zyeriis]

Am I to assume that silence would become a dancer's greatest enemy now because you want it changed to magic skill based instead of it's actual concept which is a tp/melee based healer/support class? You just gimped healing waltz btw, how am i going to remove silence to cast utsusemi if silence affects my waltzes? I may as well level whm. Or do you assume that it would be the exception to the rule and silence wouldn't affect it's magic? I'll take an order of pure absurdity, thanks.

[Byrth]

I'm not opposed to this idea, as I like to see Dancer getting buffed all the time and forever every update until we have Dual wield XIX, but I think SE intentionally avoided adding a "Dancing Skill" to the game. They've done all the things that Skill normally does through specific item effects.

Also, this should have been posted in the Dancer subforum.

[Eri]

If you think gear isn't important for DNC then ur doing it wrong.

I have every sigle Piece of 'Enhances xxx effect' now running on like ~60/80 excluding Weapons.
Thats even beside the Point cause other Abilitys and Traits should like improve by Level given a Supportive role.
(add Weapons and Ninja Tools to that, like all of them since they are needed sometimes on procs and such almost full)

Dear. God. No.

As one who plays Dnc main and /dnc at every opportunity, I think this is a horrible idea. /dnc is already horribly gimped if you're used to playing Dnc main. The waltz calculation gives you a much lower cap, Haste Samba only gives you 50% of what you're used to, you're limited to Drain Samba II, you can only gain one Finishing Move per Step, and Reverse Flourish is capped at 60.

Gear is the only advantage? Please.

Haste Samba being weaker than Marches is NOT a fault in the job, that's how it was intended to be.

I personaly newer saw a horrible disadvantage in subbing Dnc other then the one Finishingmove and the Reverse flourish nerfed, Whalzes power raises propotional as own chr and targets vit change- applys on main and sub. Samba Duration Felt like unchanged.

Victory March at 75 gave the same amount of Haste as Haste Samba(Max Merrited) at 75.
That is not the case at 90. Thats just a Fact. Thats nowhere near intended, its just being overlooked.

So, if your skill starts at 0 even if you are a 90 dnc, how would you "learn" your waltz, sambas etc? Would you make it like other magic jobs? Where you have to be the current level in order to learn the spell to use it?

Would there be a negative for having low skill when using a waltz or samba?

DNC is a DD support job. Which is why it was made the way it was. Instead of looking at it like "If I want to be as good as bard" look at it more like "If I want to be as good as NIN, THF, etc" which are gear depended jobs.

Learn? lol is this like blu or something? You get them by leveling up.
Does a Summoner learn bloodpackts or Avatar controls? No they are given to them by Level! As for favors they the Potency varys by Skill.
As if you look at Summoning Skill there is no real negative. Instead of that power is increasing with more skill as it should.


Its never a question of I wanna be as good as.... Its more like say im a subjob Ninja and i cast Kurayami ... it totally get resisted because i have only subjob skill - i could fix that by adding magic acc gear.

Now i main nin and sub dnc and just like step i land it easyly and it has the same potency as a main dancers... only drawback is 1 Finishing move.

Subjob Dancer is way to forgiving. If i want to land a step i should have to wear as mutch acc gear as i could to just land it like seriously. Like if you would wear a lot m.acc to land a nin debuff.

I'm not opposed to this idea, as I like to see Dancer getting buffed all the time and forever every update until we have Dual wield XIX, but I think SE intentionally avoided adding a "Dancing Skill" to the game. They've done all the things that Skill normally does through specific item effects.

Also, this should have been posted in the Dancer subforum.

Dual Weild caps at 50% which i exceed already with Gear i dont think they will add more. Anyway as started above theres practically no way to miss a step or like to cure really low on /dnc.

And finally noone ever said silence would Affect Abilitys. But seriously i can contol an Avatar if silenced i just cant call a new one now.
I can see that SE trys to change stuff via Gear so where is that Samba Potency gear then?
Potency of like Sambas have to increase by Level not by a LOT but they should because any other kind of supportinve Party buffing Job increases by Skill.
If someone really wants to use the job as sub or main (skill a it!) there wouldnt be any drawback really seems like you are lazy atm.

Btw This is also Subjob related and as such i think its not right to post it in Dancer as it concerns ppl that /dnc too.

[Daremo]

Curing Waltz III example:

* Formula (for DNC):

Amount Healed = floor(((Target's VIT+Caster's CHR)*0.750) + 270,1)

* Formula (for /DNC):

Amount Healed = floor(((Target's VIT+Caster's CHR)*0.375) + 270,1)


While the base amount healed is the same, the amount based on target vit and caster chr is cut in half.
When this change was made, as a frequent mnk/dnc I felt a heavy nerf.

[Eri]

Thats rather intresting i never noticed that, tho i may not have noticed due to cure potency gear on main Dnc ... the cures had to be higher anyway... so they did change things but overlooked sambas or is there any subjob Samba nerf i might have not noticed? that 50% i truely not think thats right lol In any Case step acc is weird as it does not differ from sub to main.