[dev1017]* Dancer Support/Healing Redux Idea (also /Dnc suggestions)

[Eri]

(*Dev Tag referes to Future Job Refinements)

We all like probably the Idea of spliting Waltz Timers, Which is a great Idea!

But this here will go on about something Diffrent!
Ppl were complaining about like Jig Durations/Samba Duration as a Sub... moveing on...

the potency of Ability's that support Job dancer uses are more or less as Potent
as the ones of a mainjob Dancer~ I suppose that is not working as initially intended.


While i wiedely support the whole Idea of giveing a Meele Job the possiblity, to heal
themselfes as /Dnc and Stuff, the main Jobs Dancer's only 'Edge' over a Support job Dancer
is solely to have more Potent Abilitys as the subjob ones and haveing acess to say
'Waltz Potency Agumenting Gear' 'Samba duration Gear' 'Step Acc. Gear'.

That does not serparte a Main from a Sub in Terms of Potency. Period.

I play as a light DD and supportive Class but can't support my Party as good as say a Bard,
Its not like i want the Same amount of Usefullness in support but lets compare
the Ability Haste 'Haste Samba' to the Spell Haste 'Victory March'.
And Ignoreing Bard can cast 2 Songs.

Compareing:
Haste Samba: 5% Haste (Full Merrited Main Job Dancer 10%)

Victory March 10% Haste (varis with equipment like 'Faerie Piccolo' and Skill)

Given these are fairly similar effect wise Lets Compare.

Level 75

A Dnc at capped Haste Samba gets 10% Haste,

A 75 Bard gets ~10% Haste Varying by Skill.

Level 90

A Dnc at capped Haste Samba gets 10% Haste,

A Bard gets ~12% Haste Varying by Skill and Gear.


Conclueding: Something is Weird here!


I would NOT purpose to set a Main Dancer on par with a Bard!
Im going at the "Varying by Skill and Gear" Part.

Lets me Quote the Job introduction on Dancer given by SE and highlight something:

Dancer
With their agressive steps, these thewy terpsichoreans would
weave forbidden magicks* upon themselfes and their enemies,
producing results rivaling the most powerful
sorcerous cants. The popularity of this profession reached its
peak during the Great War, when dancers were common dditions
to the allied army fighting on the front lines.
(For reference: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/altana/index.html)
*Really?

Let make an excursion to see what other Jobs have:

White Mage: Enhancing Skill, Enfeebling Skill, Devine Skill, Healing Skill
Black Mage: Elemental Skill, Enfeebling Skill, Dark Skill
Summoner: Summoneing Magic Skill
Blue Mage: Blue Magic Skill
Ninja: Ninjutsu Skill
Bard: Singing Skill, Wind Instrument skill, Stringed Instrument Skill
And so on.....

Introduceing Danceing Skill!

This is what you hoped i would say i Suppose!

Dancer's and /Dnc Abilitys should Vary with Skill!

Say we give main Dancer a A- rateing in 'Dancing Skill'

The Duration/Potency of Samba's and the Acc and Potency of Steps, Duration of Jigs as well as the Stun Acc Of Violent Flourish and the Enmity gained via Animated Flourish
would all be determined by Danceing Skill.

Therefore DNC 'Haste Samba' would be on par with 'Victory March' of a brd because Skill would
influence the Samba effect.
Of course you could Merrit Danceing Skill (under Magic) Allowing a Further increase of you current Abilitys.

As this would also affect /Dnc you could expect a Change in duration of Sambas and Jig respectively.

Any Feedback on this Idea would be really helpfull.

Edit: Spelling.

Edit 2: If you have a Better Idea,
regarding Samba Potency or preventing overwriting Sambas main to sub, or potency in case of steps, Post that too pls.

[Zyla420]

if dnc get's dancing skill, i would hope it'd cap out at A+ not A-. other than that, i think it's a solid idea as every other subjob is only half as effective as its mainjob counterpart.

[AyinDygra]

I am very happy without a Dance combat/magic skill. The Dancer job was designed from the beginning with its "support job" functionality in mind. (If I could link to the interview, I would) They essentially wanted it to replace /nin in many cases, and for solo, it most certainly has. Also, unlike /whm, I have never seen any melee be asked to use the /dnc support job to heal the party like mages are asked to use /whm. It just doesn't work out in most cases. (Samurai can make a good showing with their TP gaining abilities, but they're put to much better use in creating damage, not healing.) We're in no danger of being replaced by melee/dnc people in parties.

On a few of your points, I have to comment:
* Healing as Support Job "as good as" Main Job. I think having more potent Curing Waltzes is fine as a separation, although, with shared timers we end up using waltz3 the same as the highest waltz available as a support job. The one thought that comes to mind, besides our waltz potency gear, would be to keep the shared waltz timers on support job, but split timers on Main Job. That would be a major advantage for Dancer Mains, while keeping the support job limited.

* I like that we don't have to worry about gaining both Dance skill-ups AND Dagger skill-ups after we attain each level. Big benefit, in my opinion. I think our "Dance Skill" is actually "Dagger skill", because, in effect, melee combat gives us the TP we need to perform our dances.

[Eri]

On a few of your points, I have to comment:
* Healing as Support Job "as good as" Main Job. I think having more potent Curing Waltzes is fine as a separation, although, with shared timers we end up using waltz3 the same as the highest waltz available as a support job. The one thought that comes to mind, besides our waltz potency gear, would be to keep the shared waltz timers on support job, but split timers on Main Job. That would be a major advantage for Dancer Mains, while keeping the support job limited.

* I like that we don't have to worry about gaining both Dance skill-ups AND Dagger skill-ups after we attain each level. Big benefit, in my opinion. I think our "Dance Skill" is actually "Dagger skill", because, in effect, melee combat gives us the TP we need to perform our dances.

Sadly that does not affect that our Sambas Potency as opposed to Jobs like Brd as stated in the OP therefore, i can't feel ok with the Situation.
Spliting timers does give enough supportablity, you can always sub mage for status cures and such. Point being however you put it a /dnc's sambas will overwirite a Main Dnc sambas considdering its the same 'Samba Tier' by Skill the stronges Samba would also overwrite the weakest. Also Jig Duration would be a Major Point to keep im mind for /dnc.
Also. As im consumeing the same tools as /nin than main Nin i should get the same debuff landing rates? well if that was the case i could nuke as /blm and be only limited on spells available and my Mp pool?
I mean ok you like it. Thats fine. It aint got any logic whatsoever.

[Kimble]

The problem is, Sambas etc, are not magic skills like everything you listed. Really the best thing they could do, is make it so a samba of the same tier from a dancer main, would overide the samba of a /DNC

[Eri]

The Idea is to create "Dancing Skill" and considder it Magic as started above.... (wonder if you read the OP?)
So Samba overwriting would not occur and the silly /dnc would be depending on Skill like everyone else on anoth SJ is.

[Kimble]

If they changed it to a magic type skill, do you purpose everyone have their skill auto capped then to whatever their current level is? Also, DNC can already make Jigs and Sambas last longer through use of their AF and Relic.

Honestly if you want your Samba to be as strong as bard's march, all you have to do add a piece of gear that "Enhances Samba Potency" and problem solved without having to revamp a whole system.

[Eeek]

The Duration/Potency of Samba's and the Acc and Potency of Steps, Duration of Jigs as well as the Stun Acc Of Violent Flourish and the Enmity gained via Animated Flourish
would all be determined by Danceing Skill.

There's no need to add 'Dancing Skill' when DNCs can already do all of these things via gear and merits.

[Eri]

Don't care if its lvl 0 to begin with ... that lvls by playing the Job if you dont wanna play it y lvl it to begin with?

I dont see that Gear being as useful and i personally would not have room for it also y would a Dancer would need Gear
and plase stop trolling and not reading the topic ' If you want...' thats a general fault in the job and not 'If i want', If i want to be a good Brd i do lvl my Skills. If i want to be a good dnc i get Gear for it? No Thanks really. Lol on a Serious Note Read the OP before replying. Nothing in you Post is benefical at all.

and no Dancer cant do it again read the Op lol at ppl speaking before reading.

Edit: And btw y would dnc need Gear to exceed a Subjob Dancer for anythin with other Jobs dont needing it?

[Bumbeen]

This is extremely difficult to read