Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Razushu]

How versatile are you when White Mage can outbuff, outheal, and outdamage you all at the same time?

When Red Mage can outbuff, outheal, and outdamage you all at the same time?

When Corsair can outbuff, outheal, and outdamage you all at the same time?

When Bard can outbuff, outheal, and outdamage you all at the same time?

When Scholar can outbuff, outheal, and outdamage you all at the same time?

When Dancer can outbuff, outheal, and outdamage you all at the same time?

Gee, I think I listed every job in the game that's capable of buffing, healing, and damaging simultaneously. They all do it better than Summoner.

First off no job can really DD/buff/support at the same time, they can focus on maybe 2 except SMN.

How is this RDM TPing,WS, healing and keeping a refresh/haste cycle all at once?

When Bard can TPing,WS, healing and keeping a buff cycle up all at once?

When Scholar can TPing,WS, healing and nuking and keeping a buff cycle up all at once?

When Dancer can outbuff, outheal, and outdamage you all at the same time?

DNC gan give drain aspir or haste samba at a time they do better damage but will have to sacrifice TP to heal.

I keep pointing that we aren't the strongest in any particular one role but can add healthy amounts of all 3 at the same time

[Dallas]

What was typed was MUCH stupider than even your Byakko's Axe WAR idea, Korpg.

GG, mind telling us what the WAR in your math was subbing? I remember it being /SAM for Hasso. Now the WARs want to sub DNC because SMN buffs are too threatening.

[Razushu]

See "TP Feed" argument. There are people who believe that WHM run out of MP unless you are a Ukon WAR in which case Pantokrator will die halfway through his TP move and you don't even need to bring a WHM.

Go away this is a serious discussion

[Dallas]

If the topic is DD, you aren't involved Raz.

[Korpg]

This implies that all of those buffs are useful. Phalanx most certainly is not as omgawesome as it sounds. In most cases, the effect is practically moot when dealing with anything that hits harder than an EP mandragora. Stoneskinga has limited use and is also available from practically every SCH and SCH sub mage in existence, so that's not a unique buff. Hastega is also absolutely worthless so I won't start there.

10% JA Haste is absolutely godly in practically every circumstance, even without a bard (looking at going from 40% to 50% Haste for most competent DDs, no bard). I dare say that alone is more of a buff than any sort of Eva boost, crappy Blink, or rehashed Stoneskin can offer. Summoner's best (read: only good) DD buff is completely incompatible with DNC to boot, sharply throttling its practical usefulness.

Stoneskinga from a SMN is stronger than one from a SCH or WHM/SCH.

Even then, if you have a SMN who's job is to keep stoneskin up for the tank and DDs in the same party, it frees up the WHM who is supposed to continue to keep the tank and DDs healed. A well placed stoneskin can be the difference between a wipe and a semi-wipe.

Mind you, I wouldn't expect you yourself to have a SMN in the party since I know your caliber of playstyle, but dismissing the idea wholly in favor of DNC's one buff is not right. SMN does have more than one useful buff, abet with limited situations, but still very useful in its own right.

What's worse, a DNC or a DNC with Stoneskin up?

[Razushu]

If the topic is DD, you aren't involved Raz.

Says you, you're the first to mention SMN melee in a while

[Neisan_Quetz]

Can someone edit the lolwiki then, cause it's still saying Earthern Ward is vastly inferior to Stoneskin.

[Korpg]

What was typed was MUCH stupider than even your Byakko's Axe WAR idea, Korpg.

GG, mind telling us what the WAR in your math was subbing? I remember it being /SAM for Hasso. Now the WARs want to sub DNC because SMN buffs are too threatening.

You still accuse me of reading comprehension, but you yourself can't comprehend the idea of an example.

I think you are purposefully being stupid because you think it would make your argument look better. Go ahead and continue to use Byakko's Axe from my example if you want to think you look better. Point still stands, melee SMN still sucks, and your argument has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese.

[Greatguardian]

First off no job can really DD/buff/support at the same time, they can focus on maybe 2 except SMN.

How is this RDM TPing,WS, healing and keeping a refresh/haste cycle all at once?

When Bard can TPing,WS, healing and keeping a buff cycle up all at once?

When Scholar can TPing,WS, healing and nuking and keeping a buff cycle up all at once?

When Dancer can outbuff, outheal, and outdamage you all at the same time?

DNC gan give drain aspir or haste samba at a time they do better damage but will have to sacrifice TP to heal.

I keep pointing that we aren't the strongest in any particular one role but can add healthy amounts of all 3 at the same time

That is absolutely not true and you have absolutely no idea what the potential of other jobs is if you think that they are incapable of doing all 3 simultaneously. The better a player is, the better they are able to focus on multiple things at once.

RDM's refresh/Haste cycle is easy and every good RDM in the entire game should have this internalized to the point where it's not even taking a moment of their attention away from everything else. Healing is also very easy, and not something that needs to be spammed fulltime. Good RDMs can melee and outdamage SMN. Good RDMs can also Nuke and outdamage SMN. All while keeping up Haste/Refresh and tossing out cures. I've been doing it every time I've used my RDM without issue. Got spare MP? Not riding your nuke timer and your temp meds? Nuke more.

BRD casts 2 songs every 2-3 minutes. 4 if there's Ballads in play. There's a reason they were so often called on to pull for parties. They have a ton of spare time. And with Evisceration, they handily destroy Summoner in the damage department. They also heal as well, or better, than SMN by having the same spells and better access to fast cast/haste gear/buffs.

SCH can Heal, Buff, and Nuke at the same time easily. That's basically what they do. They will also outdamage Summoner in sheer nuking power, completely ignoring melee. What your pet can do every 45 seconds, they can do every 5-10.

DNC's Haste Samba is singularly better than every Summoner buff in existence combined. They can heal significantly better than Summoner, all while doing exceptional damage. Just ask Byrth, Dancer is sorta his thing. They are exceedingly powerful damage dealers, even more so inside Abyssea.

Even a Hexa Strike / Mystic Boon WHM can handily destroy SMN in the damage department, while being the best healer in the game and keeping a healthy barspell/Shellra5/Haste/etc set up at all times. I keep my WHM at 88 these days specifically to take advantage of my Octave club offhand and handily destroy things while main healing parties.

Edit: War was /SAM. Also, the SMN in that test was using Red Curry Buns with March +3 x2 and Haste Samba. An unbuffed, unfooded SMN (the way you claim to play it) is not coming anywhere close to their Avatar's damage so please stop throwing around that 150/400 number like it means anything for you personally. It was comparing the theoretical maximums of the jobs.

[Alhanelem]

Summary of this page: No one likes a jack of trades.

Even a Hexa Strike / Mystic Boon WHM can handily destroy SMN in the damage department,

BS

Also I'm getting sick of your overuse of the word "handily"