Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Razushu]

Next you are going to tell us that some mobs you shouldn't melee because they absorb physical damage. It's funnier every time it's said.

Did you really mean to say that?

[Razushu]

The thing is you should always have Haste spell on anyway, with or without a SMN. In the ideal DD setup (where you will want perfect haste) you should have DD DD DD DD DNC WHM where the DNC drops and a BRD comes in to rotate songs.

In that case you will never have a SMN, and that's another reason Samba is better.

But seriously It's much MUCH better than Hastega because its JA haste where Magic haste will usually be capped assuming you have BRD.

Why not DD DD DD DD/DNC SMN WHM and the BRD and SMN rotate exact same effect but it doesn't take 80secs for the WHM to finish haste cycle

[Bumbeen]

smn can give 10% JA haste?

edit: misread

edit2: actually I still don't know wtf you're saying.

[Razushu]

Anyway, basic summary of this thread is:
1) Situations where summoner is the best job to use are situations that are not conducive to meleeing.
2) Summoners that like playing summoner can do better damage on Summoner with 175 items sunk into an Emp staff than they could on a melee that they don't like playing (or potentially don't have leveled).

1) These are the situations where SMN excels but they're far from the only time we're useful.

I know at least people are going to disagree with number 1, but no one has provided a single specific example of a situation that falls outside of my 3-5 "strategic uses" of Summoner. I've seen a lot of "I go summoner and it feels like helping enough that I'm better than an empty party slot" but not a lot of "This is why I'm better than any other job in this situation." When you claim something, the burden of proof is on you and not your opposition.

I'm telling you the proof SMN is an amazing DD/Buffer/Support role if played by a skilled player. Are my buffs as good as a BRDs? no but my Damage is(hatefree and doesn't feed TP) and support abilities can be(more MP and MP management) and I can give more buffs at once. COR can either focus on DD or support to go along with thier buffs. Thier damage will be better and thier buffs most likely better But they're hardly leaving SMN in the dust.

2) SMN melee is a tool that certain SMNs use and can bring to the group if it's safe to melee on just like any other job

[Razushu]

smn can give 10% JA haste?

edit: misread

edit2: actually I still don't know wtf you're saying.

SMN gives a full party Haste that lasts 5 minutes this is numkerically greater than 10% haste(if merited) that only affects melees.

My point was if you're trying to cap haste, why does the DNC replace the SMN most dual weilding classes can sub DNC for 5% haste sambawhich (going by the math put forward in this thread) is more than enough to cap haste in the group so why bother with the DNC when you can have a SMN hastega and rotate with the BRD as stated by Leonlionheart I jsut swapped the DNC for a SMN party still gets the same haste

[Bumbeen]

So the smn is there to just save the whm mp that he doesn't even need?

[Razushu]

So the smn is there to just save the whm mp that he doesn't even need?

To speed up the process and to be honest I've never been in a setup rotating a BRD. But for normal use exp/NM/event the SMN does a helluva lot more than save the WHM some MP. We add damage from a source the whm and tank don't need to worry about, we add buffs to the party and can still find time to support the party with heals etc.

[Bumbeen]

Can't brd cor dnc and another whm do those functions or combinations of those functions better than smn? I think I have to agree smn can do none of those things(dmg, buffs, support) better than another job.

[Razushu]

Can't brd cor dnc and another whm do those functions or combinations of those functions better than smn? I think I have to agree smn can do none of those things(dmg, buffs, support) better than another job.

Yes this is something I haven't tired to hide, focusing on one of these roles a SMN falls behind a specialist, but since a SMN can do all 3 well AT THE SAME TIME. SMN has no problem contributing to a party

[Bumbeen]

How does smn do dmg if they're casting support spells and avatars for buffs? What are these buffs anyway? I am not familiar with smn so much. I think it's been covered pretty well in this thread that smn doesn't do any useful dmg.

Would not a war/dnc be better? They can do dmg, support heals, and party buffs too.(and they're all instant, no casting!)