Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Razushu]

I replace your useless staff with a real staff. I change NOTHING else. I do everything you just did AND have 1500mp extra MP. Melee SMN does everything you do, but with more MP, better buffs, and more damage.

That's if I was only playing the game to spank some guy who can't be bothered to level his staff skill. In reality, you are far too lazy to interest me.

More MP on top of more MP than you can use is pointless. Melee SMN cannot do everything I do unless you think I predator claws every 45 secs and hastega every 5 minutes. Show me someone who claims they can DD, melee for MP, cycle buffs and back up the party and I'll show you a liar. Better buffs, how? we have access to the same buffs except I wear a good idle set so I don't need to worry about MP and can spend my time cycling avatars to give multiple buffs to my party. Why do I need to level staff that badly I have no interest in a niche playstyle I'll never lose an invite over it, I have capped Summoning magic skill and I worked like hell to do it, Why because it matters for every aspect of SMN.

Still waiting to be spanked here, I've countered every single argument you've made logically while you pick little bits of my posts and respond to that and even then it's usually you just flexing ur ego or flashing your epeen. Lazy? Ha I'm leveling BST solo, why? Because I'm ensuring all it's combat skills are capped or close to as I level. Because BST is the job you think SMN is and I'm leveling it for those moments where I want to melee beside a pet.

[Alhanelem]

Having something free and recouping the cost later is not the same thing.

It's not LITERALLY the same thing. it is EFFECTIVELY the same thing. Neither player runs out of MP, therefore the perpetuation cost is irrelevant.

I know not every peice of perp gear is needed atm but it's hard to beat -6 perp in a single slot.

It is beaten by being not needed at all. Why use perp in the weapon slot when it's both not needed and there are better non-perp weapons available. Not meleeing? Go Soulscourge. Oddly, the perp staff I see the most is the Dark one, which is the most pointless one to have. Diabolos is currently one of the most useless avatars, and the only reason to use him is for avatar's favor and a few other niche things. Fenrir, on the other hand, has a lower perpetuation cost to begin with. So, recap: Diabolos doesn't need it because you're probably using Favor. Fenrir doesn't need it because fenrir has a lower perp cost. Dark perp staff unneded. For me, any perp staff is unneded, as I can be gaining MP with absolutely any summon out under any conditions with Favor, and under certain conditions without it, with no perp on staff whatsoever. This is whether you melee or not- it doesn't matter. You do NOT need perp - on the weapon slot, and 6 is overkill. There are few non-perp items in other slots you would want to wear fulltime by using a perp staff. It is better to use a non-perp staff and use other slots for perp, again, regardless of whether you melee or not.

Razushu stop arguing with Dallas, it's pointless. As long as you can acknowledge that a melee SMN is stronger than one who doesn't in terms of maximum possible damage output, then we're all fine and happy. No one other than Dallas is claiming it's the best thing in the world, only that it's a good thing for SMN itself- it's one tool out of many that a good SMN can have in his arsenal. You may not out DPS anyone, but it's still an improvement over BP and release. This points out an inherent flaw with SMN tha SE needs to address.

[Dallas]

I'll show you a liar.

Will it be as fantastic as your Full Swing was? You should swing your staff as much as you swing at me.

[Razushu]

Will it be as fantastic as your Full Swing was? You should swing your staff as much as you swing at me.

No I shouldn't I'm neither geared for it nor am I playing a job that was designed with melee in mind.

-EDIT-

You still miss the point of my posting that Full Swing info IT WAS TO SHOW YOU HOW NULL ANY ARGUMENT IS IF IT'S RELIANT ON NUMBERS FROM ABYSSEA TO SOUND ATTRACTIVE.

If the best you can do on a full swing geared/skilled/merited with full melee atmas is <x3 my damage with a weapon twice as good then I'm afraid your numbers aren't all that great either.

[Razushu]

It's not LITERALLY the same thing. it is EFFECTIVELY the same thing. Neither player runs out of MP, therefore the perpetuation cost is irrelevant.

It's good enough that further argument would be cyclical and amount to nothing more than nit picking so ok.

It is beaten by being not needed at all. Why use perp in the weapon slot when it's both not needed and there are better non-perp weapons available. Not meleeing? Go Soulscourge.

It's needed for a max perp/refresh set that allows me to full time evoker's spats and summoner's bracers seeing as +28 acc to avatars is very nice.

Oddly, the perp staff I see the most is the Dark one, which is the most pointless one to have. Diabolos is currently one of the most useless avatars, and the only reason to use him is for avatar's favor and a few other niche things. Fenrir, on the other hand, has a lower perpetuation cost to begin with. So, recap: Diabolos doesn't need it because you're probably using Favor. Fenrir doesn't need it because fenrir has a lower perp cost.

I think it's because there was alot of dark: -perp teiwaz holder's back at 75 cap, when you could only have 1 of the magian staves and - perp was much harder to come by.

Razushu stop arguing with Dallas, it's pointless. As long as you can acknowledge that a melee SMN is stronger than one who doesn't in terms of maximum possible damage output, then we're all fine and happy. No one other than Dallas is claiming it's the best thing in the world, only that it's a good thing for SMN itself- it's one tool out of many that a good SMN can have in his arsenal. You may not out DPS anyone, but it's still an improvement over BP and release. This points out an inherent flaw with SMN tha SE needs to address.

LOL I was wondering why you typed my name in a different colour for a minute, lack of sleep FTW. I've already said somewhere that both playstyles have merits and SMN melee will see better Damage output but poorer party buffs/support. this is true SE needs to boost avatars their melee is awful on anything T+. I'm sorry I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking SMN melee Ijust like arguing with arrogant know-it-all fools

[Dallas]

You still miss the point

Level staff skill and get a real weapon and you'll understand why I ignored your point.

[Razushu]

Level staff skill and get a real weapon and you'll understand why I ignored your point.

Get a real DD job and level it's appropriate weapon skill.

You seem dumber with every post. If you're ignoring me stop posting replies, with each reply you look less like you know what you're doing and more like you lack the intelligence/game knowledge to respond sensibly

[Korpg]

I replace your useless staff with a real staff. I change NOTHING else. I do everything you just did AND have 1500mp extra MP. Melee SMN does everything you do, but with more MP, better buffs, and more damage.

That's if I was only playing the game to spank some guy who can't be bothered to level his staff skill. In reality, you are far too lazy to interest me.

I knew that Dallas was going to bring out laziness back to his argument.

Again with the "my way or the highway" attitude Dallas? You know you aren't attracting people into your point of view by doing that.

Also, while you may do more damage at first, you will die more than I would. And what is the point in doing more damage when our DoT will be equal or so close it will not matter.

Don't forget that after you die, you will have to wait 5 minutes just to do anything because you don't have the gear to keep your avatar out without meleeing or risk dying again.

[Malamasala]

No I shouldn't I'm neither geared for it nor playing a job that was designed with melee in mind.

I hope you aren't casting cures. Because your job is not designed for it. (Not more than DRK is designed for casting cures at least). I will admit you could gear for casting cures though, because SE has made the insane design choices of randomly putting us on those armors.

SE should give us identical armors to BLU and DRK, considering we are designed by the same base. A melee job with MP.

[Razushu]

I hope you aren't casting cures. Because your job is not designed for it. (Not more than DRK is designed for casting cures at least). I will admit you could gear for casting cures though, because SE has made the insane design choices of randomly putting us on those armors.

SE should give us identical armors to BLU and DRK, considering we are designed by the same base. A melee job with MP.

Summoner is not a melee job with MP, any job in this game can gear for melee and easily outstrip SMN Seriously we are a magical pet job pure and simple we have the least going for us as far as melee is concerned. Of course I'm casting cures if thats whats needed because I have enough MP and can equip enough curing gear to make it not awful. Before you start with "your job is not designed for it" I don't join a party to just heal I join to DD/Buff/support it. Which begs the question why are you showing up to a party geared for melee on a job not designed for it with that as you main purpose.

SE didn't put us on healing gear randomly it was done with a purpose SMN and WHM have a long standing like in previous FFs and SMN was NEVER a melee in these either. We can make better use of a healing/support subjob than most others because the way our main job works gives us little chunks of free time which can be used to fil in the gaps so to speak.

SMN was designed as a DD/support job it has no more going for it melee than ANY other job and less going for it in nearly all cases(I say nearly all to err on the side of caution, there may be one other job as bad off as us but I haven't seen it yet.

No where ever has SE said SMN and melee in the same sentence. I'm not saying don't melee I'm just saying the job is not designed for it please admit it.