Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Korpg]

Well, Nirvana is pretty much the only staff that would make melee SMN viable. You got it all. The staff contains perp cost reduction (by a buttload). It contains MAB+ for magical BPs. It has Att+, Acc+, and Occasionally double attack + for not only the summoner, but the avatar also. Who wouldn't want their Garuda to do double attacks?

And, it doesn't limit you to a single WS that does 0 damage to maintain MP. You can do Garland of Bliss or Spirit Taker (and if you double attack Spirit Taker, that's even better!) (But I doubt the weapon works that way).

[Byrth]

Err... I think Ryunohige may actually beat Ukon in a lot of situations. Even Conqueror may beat Ukon sometimes (pretty much the ultimate zerg weapon). Right now DD mythics for many jobs are very underrated compared to their damage potential. Not that it matters, because they're made of unobtainium.

The biggest problem for them is how precisely you need to time AM3 activation (AM3 doesn't overwrite AM3), which tends to leave you either without AM3 while trying to build TP to 300, or overTPing at 300TP. Ryunohige has it nice here, because of Spirit/Soul Jump (5x normal hit x~1.7 attacks/round = 170TP average), Meditate (60TP), and AM3 duration all approximately lining up timer-wise, which gives you a little wiggle room and lets you boost your TP as needed. Jump/High Jump recast merits let you just save the Spirit/Soul for after WS if you don't need their TP. They take a lot more effort to play than, say, Ukon though.

Tbqh, I'd definitely get one just because they sound fun to play. The real limitation for me is the 100k Ampuoles, non-spawning Beast Kings, and last 50k tokens I'm missing, though. I feel that I could make the gil for the Alexandrite before there's enough Alexandrite on the market for me to buy, let alone before I finish any of those other things.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/907...=1#post4666916

[Leonlionheart]

Err... I think Ryunohige may actually beat Ukon in a lot of situations. Even Conqueror may beat Ukon sometimes (pretty much the ultimate zerg weapon). Right now DD mythics for many jobs are very underrated compared to their damage potential. Not that it matters, because they're made of unobtainium.

The biggest problem for them is how precisely you need to time AM3 activation (AM3 doesn't overwrite AM3), which tends to leave you either without AM3 while trying to build TP to 300, or overTPing at 300TP. Ryunohige has it nice here, because of Spirit/Soul Jump (5x normal hit x~1.7 attacks/round = 170TP average), Meditate (60TP), and AM3 duration all approximately lining up timer-wise, which gives you a little wiggle room and lets you boost your TP as needed. Jump/High Jump recast merits let you just save the Spirit/Soul for after WS if you don't need their TP. They take a lot more effort to play than, say, Ukon though.

Tbqh, I'd definitely get one just because they sound fun to play. The real limitation for me is the 100k Ampuoles, non-spawning Beast Kings, and last 50k tokens I'm missing, though. I feel that I could make the gil for the Alexandrite before there's enough Alexandrite on the market for me to buy, let alone before I finish any of those other things.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/907...=1#post4666916

I can see Conqueror outside of Abyssea, but inside there's no way the aftermath could possibly keep the dps up of Ukon considering the damage difference between King's Justice and Ukko's Fury. Maybe on incredibly high defense mobs (though none come to mind where the unreal amounts of Attack from the aftermath+Berserk IV are actually needed when using RCB and Stalwarts, other than outside abyssea in stuff like Voidwatch). Ukon still has ODD, and Ukko's Fury is miles ahead of King's Justice.

Personally I would love to go after Conqueror or Ryunohige just because of the drastically different play styles, but I don't even like playing more than 10 hours a week anymore, so no way.

[Korpg]

I can see Conqueror outside of Abyssea, but inside there's no way the aftermath could possibly keep the dps up of Ukon considering the damage difference between King's Justice and Ukko's Fury. Maybe on incredibly high defense mobs (though none come to mind where the unreal amounts of Attack from the aftermath+Berserk IV are actually needed when using RCB and Stalwarts, other than outside abyssea in stuff like Voidwatch). Ukon still has ODD, and Ukko's Fury is miles ahead of King's Justice.

Um...you wouldn't be using King's Justice...you would be using Raging Rush..........

[Cream_Soda]

Um...you wouldn't be using King's Justice...you would be using Raging Rush..........

In that case, it wouldn't even be a competition. Conq w/o the OTT isn't rly going to do much for you.

[Byrth]

Personally I would love to go after Conqueror or Ryunohige just because of the drastically different play styles, but I don't even like playing more than 10 hours a week anymore, so no way.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about Terpsichore.

For zerging with Mighty Strikes, Conqueror is best inside or outside.
King's Justice: 3.0 fTP before DAs, 50% STR, +60% "DA" rate that can proc on WS, +15% WS damage from level 90.
Ukko's Fury: 3.0 fTP before DAs, 60% STR

Assuming you run 30% DA and +.2 fTP in your WS gear normally (and avg pdif = 3) and 100TP:
KJ: 4.64*1.15=5.336 fTP effectively, 50% STR = ~5.2k average
Ukko's Fury: 3.8 fTP, 60% STR : ~4k average
With 300TP (to start AM3):
KJ: 5.91 fTP average, 50% STR : ~5.8k average

And (unconfirmed) +40% Attack from Berserk, much easier 5-hit, 70% DA rate instead of 30%, high probability of DA->DA for 100TP in two attack rounds, etc. It's not just a little better in zerg conditions. It's a looootttt better. I'd love to see one in action.

Inside Abyssea, obviously crits are king. Outside Abyssea, Conqueror is pretty sweet. However, I've heard that someone who has both prefers to use her Ukon. I have to imagine that King's Justice is finally better than Raging Rush, though.

[Leonlionheart]

For zerging with Mighty Strikes, Conqueror is best inside or outside.
King's Justice: 3.0 fTP before DAs, 50% STR, +60% "DA" rate that can proc on WS, +15% WS damage from level 90.
Ukko's Fury: 3.0 fTP before DAs, 60% STR

Assuming you run 30% DA and +.2 fTP in your WS gear normally (and avg pdif = 3) and 100TP:
KJ: 4.64*1.15=5.336 fTP effectively, 50% STR = ~5.2k average
Ukko's Fury: 3.8 fTP, 60% STR : ~4k average
With 300TP (to start AM3):
KJ: 5.91 fTP average, 50% STR : ~5.8k average

And (unconfirmed) +40% Attack from Berserk, much easier 5-hit, 70% DA rate instead of 30%, high probability of DA->DA for 100TP in two attack rounds, etc. It's not just a little better in zerg conditions. It's a looootttt better. I'd love to see one in action.

Inside Abyssea, obviously crits are king. Outside Abyssea, Conqueror is pretty sweet. However, I've heard that someone who has both prefers to use her Ukon. I have to imagine that King's Justice is finally better than Raging Rush, though.

Oh with Mighty Strikes, that makes more sense.

[Arciel]

Well, to be quite honest as well, Hvergelmir isn't a bad weapon, even for SMN. It has its uses, and does in fact excel for meleeing. I'm of the belief that for anything <EM which is relatively safe to melee on, Hvergelmir will win out as the weapon of choice for MP longevity simply because of the sheer amount of MP you're able to get back without much difficulty, which is better than Spirit Taker as well because it isn't accuracy reliant and nets you consistent MP returns without fail.

But anything harder than you, a SMN really shouldn't be meleeing, and so ultimately, Hvergelmir fails as a weapon even for its best use (MP regen) in challenging situations. Because in principle a SMN isn't going to be meleeing, theres really nothing to compare in terms of damage numbers - they're theoretical at best and have no practical use.

However, if we're talking about new/popular events, the Hvergelmir gets an extended lease of life. In Abyssea, you typically wouldn't even have MP issues but Hvergelmir (or that other Myrkr weapon) will give you the option to swap out MM for a regain atma should you so need the TP for other uses as well (like idk, procs).

It shines in Voidwatch as well, because MP is indeed an issue and players aren't always going to get regular procs to replenish their temp item supply. A Hvergelmir effectively converts a Dusty Wing into something like an Ether, which is useful in such events, but pretty much as a swap in piece.

I'm working on both Hvergelmir and Nirvana right now and must say.. getting a Hvergelmir is ridiculously easy because no one wants the items required to make the staff. I started about a week back - doing Sedna first cos its easier to solo with BST - and had people giving me Tusks left and right... also have like 10+ Kukulkan Fangs and all were given to me.
Suffice to say it isn't hard at all to make a functional (one that can use Myrkr) Hvergelmir to use as a fun tool for EP solo play and as a TP converter..

As for Nirvana, almost 2/5 done on Assault reclears and working on znm trophies. building reserves for alex too but other than these 3 things im done.. so.. gonna soldier on and hope the 'changes to toau' will affect this positively

[Malamasala]

I'm working on both Hvergelmir and Nirvana right now and must say.. getting a Hvergelmir is ridiculously easy because no one wants the items required to make the staff. I started about a week back - doing Sedna first cos its easier to solo with BST - and had people giving me Tusks left and right... also have like 10+ Kukulkan Fangs and all were given to me.
Suffice to say it isn't hard at all to make a functional (one that can use Myrkr) Hvergelmir to use as a fun tool for EP solo play and as a TP converter..

I never considered the "giving" path. Maybe it would actually work. Do you just catch pickup groups going for atmas and wins?

[Alhanelem]

I never considered the "giving" path. Maybe it would actually work. Do you just catch pickup groups going for atmas and wins?

I joined a JP group that was farming for +2 items, I told them all I wanted was the sedna tusks; They said they were doing 3 sednas, and ended up doing about 10, and they happily gave me all the fangs, and I ended up getting some +2 items too when no one needed them anymore lol.

For me, Kukulkan was more of a pain, because nobody really fought him much when I was on that trial. now, with the +2 items dropping in those areas, those NMs becaome a little more popular but still no one wants the staff items, so if you want one of these, it's pretty much the easiest empyrean until you get to Azdaja...