Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Malamasala]

BLM get TP for nuking? You learn something every day. I do get way more than I can use on SCH though.

(To a great extent because I wear a club with 0 club skill. Something I for fun decided to keep at 0 for laughs)

[Alhanelem]

BLM got Occult Accumen in the last update, SCH and DRK had it from the update before. TP gain is based on the level of the trait, the MP cost of the spell and Store TP. BLM currently gets 1 level (TP=2.5% of MP cost). SCH gets 2 (5% of MP cost) and DRK gets 4 (10% of MP cost). In the end, all three jobs get similar amounts, though the DRK empyrean has one piece that enhances it by calculating the TP gain as if the MP cost were increased by some amount.

Occult Accumen I is subbable on DRK, so technically RDM can get the same trait as BLM (but doesn't have as expensive spells as BLM so doesn't get as much TP)

[Dallas]

The issue I take, and took, and that you ran headlong into on page 3 of this thread without bothering to read for comprehension everything that was being said, is simply Dallas claiming that SMN Emp Staff can do more total damage than a Ukonvasara WAR.

Speaking of reading comprehension, get some.

I don't have to deal more damage than a Ukon WAR, I just have to do more damage than an ice staff SMN.

Post less, read more.

[Greatguardian]

Oh hey. Safeface part 1, yes? You never replied to our original back-and-forth where I asked what spike damage you were referring to in this post here:

Seriously guys, go look at the DOT numbers on Hver 90 and Ukon 90. Hver is 7.5% under Ukon.

Hver 90:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Hvergelmir_(90)

Ukon 90:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ukonvasara_(90)

This is a source of damage that most BLM/SCH/SMN don't touch with a 10-foot pole. No, you don't have the melee skills to make your staff "WAR awesome," but WAR don't use Tier V nukes, Hate-free avatar damage, or any of our numerous buffs/debuffs.

Yes, you will lose spike damage. You will do more total damage.

Myrkr is miles ahead of Spirit Taker, which can miss. SE did a great job designing a WS to surpass Spirit Taker. Not all emp weapons have WS that people want to use, so mages got the best deal.

Relic and Mythic are much weaker due to less popular WS, but they still surpass common weapons.

See, it sounds very much to me like you are saying "Hver does 7% less damage than Ukon in TP phase because I don't understand DPS, but we do more total damage because of BPs and T5 nukes"

So were you saying that you do less "spike damage" than ... I dunno ... a non-melee SMN? How are you doing less spike damage, exactly? You are still BP'ing every 45 seconds. I dare say you'd be doing more spike damage since you are not worrying about MP at all.

See, that sounds a lot like "Well, we don't have Ukko's Fury, but we'll do more total damage."

If that's not what you intended to say, what exactly did you mean by that post? Don't worry, I'm listening.

[Tamoa]

Didn't bother to read through the last 2 pages, but in regards of soloing Ovni, I have done that more than once as nin/dnc straight tanking it. No kiting (how the hell do you kite something that moves @ flee speed anyway) and certainly no pinning necessary. He's ridiculously easy.

[Dallas]

GG, these details are in other threads. I can repost them real fast:

Spike damage for SMN = BPs & various WS options

"Yes, you will lose spike damage."

Hvergelmir does NOT increase BPs, unlike several other staves including: B.Staff, Magian, Nirvana. Myrkr WS does 0 damage as well. In all aspects, Spike damage will go down with Hvergelmir.

"You will do more total damage."

In return for that LOST damage, you gain DoT from a powerful weapon, much more powerful than any other staff (exception: Claustrum). This weapon provides so much MP that the SMN can wear full haste gear, keep the avatar out indefinitely and use full pacts.

Again, SMN is not buffed like a WAR, but we aren't WAR. We have plenty of other benefits. For example, SMN doesn't need to use shadows. We'll only get hit with AOE damage and have multiple sources for AOE cures.

I don't *need* to outdamage a Ukon WAR, because a WAR can't switch roles in a pinch. I do need to play my SMN assuming that "in a pinch" is never needed. If everyone is doing their job well, SMN is left to DD.

My Hver SMN is not the bottom of the DD barrel. I kill rabbits in Vunk at least twice as fast as a non-emp NIN. I didn't actually count, but the NIN sure cried a lot. SMN may have the strongest "pure pearl light" build for Abyssea. It requires Myrkr, because the WS can't give ruby light. That counts as "utility" in my book.

[Alhanelem]

(how the hell do you kite something that moves @ flee speed anyway)

Simple... you just have to run until you're well out of sight to resummon.

[Tamoa]

Simple... you just have to run until you're well out of sight to resummon.

You mean you run out of sight while your avatar is fighting so you can resummon when your avatar dies before Ovni catches up with you?

Anyways, I don't really summon much of anything as nin/dnc.

I made that post as a response to those that don't believe Ovni can be soloed by a non-pet job.

[Korpg]

You mean you run out of sight while your avatar is fighting so you can resummon when your avatar dies before Ovni catches up with you?

Anyways, I don't really summon much of anything as nin/dnc.

I made that post as a response to those that don't believe Ovni can be soloed by a non-pet job.

I didn't think it was possible, but I was proven wrong.

What I do is pull Ovni in the middle of the two big crevasse, but on one end of the runway, have an avatar (Shiva mostly, but I switch up the avatars when damage starts to become resistant to a certain element) BP about 3 times, run to the other side of the runway and release/resummon in between BP timers, so when it comes back, I automatically BP and let the avatar get hate again, then run away after 3 BPs.

Apparently, I did it the hard way. But it was still fun towards the end.

[Deadvinta]

I dunno. Scholar gets a pretty nice mythic...


http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tupsimati_(85)

Combining this with Atma bonuses.