Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Greatguardian]

I never claimed dallas was right on this, and I wasn't the one who made the comparison in the first place? So why aren't you attacking him instead of me?

I am.

I never said attack capped at 999. I said attack capped. cRatio caps. 2.2 for 2-handers. WAR doesn't need minuets to easily cap cRatio on a lot of things, assuming Berserk (fair enough since we're already assuming Smn/Sam and War/Sam are using Hasso which is native too). Since I pulled in bards, we may as well give the Smn Minuets in addition to marches just to be nice. Should we SV them too for fun? You're still looking at only 840~ attack if you assume 550 with RCB SMN/SAM.

No. That's not negligible.

Again, I'll say for the dozenth time, SMN hitting things is better than SMN not hitting things. SMN hitting things isn't total suck. But SMN hitting things cannot effectively compare its personal DD power to a "true" DD. It absolutely cannot. Be it WAR, or MNK, or NIN, or DRG. They will do more damage, and have a greater overall utility (aside from DRG).

Does that mean SMN is total ass? Meh. Depends on who you ask. It'll always be better than a total gimpcrap player. But comparing yourself to a gimpcrap player, or a DRK of any kind, is like kicking a toddler and bragging about winning the fight.

[Leonlionheart]

Again, I'll say for the dozenth time, SMN hitting things is better than SMN not hitting things.

Ehh... you could get into situations where TP feed is a problem but they aren't as common as what 75% of the population does anyway (Farm 85 Empyrean mats till their eyes fall out).

Assuming abyssea, and non-heroes content, SMN hitting stuff would be better than SMN not hitting stuff. Otherwise the only NMs it would be prudent to TP on would be like Orthrus, Respheph, or Bennu, and only if your WHM has a great bar-spell or the SMN is changing to Titan every so often for Earthen Armor.

[Greatguardian]

Ehh... you could get into situations where TP feed is a problem but they aren't as common as what 75% of the population does anyway (Farm 85 Empyrean mats till their eyes fall out).

Assuming abyssea, and non-heroes content, SMN hitting stuff would be better than SMN not hitting stuff. Otherwise the only NMs it would be prudent to TP on would be like Orthrus, Respheph, or Bennu, and only if your WHM has a great bar-spell or the SMN is changing to Titan every so often for Earthen Armor.

Oh I'm definitely assuming if the SMN's in a group, they're being treated the same as any other "DD" as far as cures and TP feed goes. Of course, that's a somewhat outlandish assumption if only because I don't think it ever happens in reality.

[Alhanelem]

Assuming anything where "feeding TP" isn't an absolute death sentence

Fixed that for you. Not just Abyssea or just a certain area of it, any place and situation where it is OK to have more than one melee on a mob.

[Byrth]

ftr, the pDIF information/specifics on ffxiclopedia and gamersescape is 2-3 years old and at least partially wrong. Read the FFXIclopedia discussion page for more specifics.

Also, lol at the comments about soloing Ovni. I've soloed it on Dancer at 80 with Saber Dance / Haste Samba up the whole time, so I've no doubt that a Thief could do it. Yuna from FFXIAH did it on Dancer at 75. Sidenote though, BST gets TH3 with Dipper Yuly if they're lucky.

Fact of the matter is that Relic and Empyrean staves (and sometimes Mythic) suck for typical mage usage, which doesn't generate TP.

[Leonlionheart]

Well no native SB and a rather fast weapon, and no real SB gear either besides rajas doesn't help

[Greatguardian]

Well no native SB and a rather fast weapon, and no real SB gear either besides rajas doesn't help

True enough.

[Alhanelem]

which doesn't generate TP.

BLM and SCH do get TP for nuking, though I agree not at a high enough rate for it to be worthwhile.

ftr, the pDIF information/specifics on ffxiclopedia and gamersescape is 2-3 years old and at least partially wrong. Read the FFXIclopedia discussion page for more specifics.

I've looked over the talk page but it's kind of messy. I wouldn't mind some help updating the article if you understand it well enough to make the corrections.

(I put an outdated tag on the article- thanks for pointing that out)

[Byrth]

There's nothing to update. Masamune successfully proved the formulas wrong, but no one has combined his data into a new theory that fits everything and delivers some calculation insight. The best we've done is made fits of the average pDIF for crits and normal hits, and the formulas aren't so far off that it's really worth updating just for that.

[Alhanelem]

So the formula has changed but the new one still isn't fully understood then?

I realize for things like the damage formulas it's to be expected to some degree- but we shouldn't have to find math professors and statistics majors in our midst just to understand how important things in the game work. I mean, they know someone's going to figure stuff out eventually...