Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

[Razushu]

DNC also get Accuracy Bonus III, so that's another 35 Acc difference. SMN uses a 2H weapon though, so they get 25% DEX in their favor.

If I were to argue against the feasibility of melee summoner, Accuracy would not be my argument of choice. pDIF would be. It is so beneficial to Myrkr Summoner to keep capped Accuracy that it's entirely worth using Sushi to do it, which means they can realistically cap Acc on all but Thief monsters with proper gear, merits, and Sushi.

By the time your Acc uncaps with Sushi and proper gear, your pDIF will be so horrid that the shit damage/hit you're doing isn't worth the TP/hit you're feeding. Your Avatars have a lot of Attack, but they attack slowly and their base damage depends on fSTR. If you're meleeing and feeding TP just so you can keep your Avatar out (instead of doing BP and release) and it can also feed TP while contributing a mediocre amount of damage, then perhaps you should consider releasing and just contributing by feeding less TP and staying out of AoE range. Sometimes being less active is more helpful than being more active.

BP/release isn't necessary with a halfway decent perp/refresh set

[Byrth]

BP/release isn't necessary with a halfway decent perp/refresh set

Yeah, didn't think so, but then Myrkr really gains almost nothing (just SMN DPS with very low pDIF). I always try to lean my comparisons as far towards my opponents as I can. Also, there are bound to be situations where the TP that your avatar feeds isn't worth the damage it does. BPs don't give TP, which is a point I often don't feel is emphasized enough.

[Korpg]

Don't you wish you were alive in 2006? Those guys strutted around thinking SMN missed 80% of the time.

I think only you thought that.

But then again, only you would melee as SMN, even though you died 9 times out of 10 on anything important. 7 times out of 10 on anything worthless. Point remains, you still suck.

[Korpg]

Yeah, didn't think so, but then Myrkr really gains almost nothing (just SMN DPS with very low pDIF). I always try to lean my comparisons as far towards my opponents as I can. Also, there are bound to be situations where the TP that your avatar feeds isn't worth the damage it does. BPs don't give TP, which is a point I often don't feel is emphasized enough.

You can give SMN 300 STR/DEX vs a naked WAR using H2H (no weapon) and the WAR will still beat the SMN in melee damage. Since Myrkr does 0 damage, no point in bringing up total DoT damage either.

[Dallas]

Oh good, we've moved on to the pDif defense. Before we do that, would someone mind committing to "anything that matters" outside of Abyssea that you would melee? There's some NMs that drop junk L75 gear, and there's a ton of EPs, there's some new avoidable L90+ trash, and there's Voidwatch.

Let's establish that something (anything) exists that SMN would need sushi.

[Aurara]

Byakko, and Kirin.

[Dallas]

That falls under "junk 75 drops." More specifically it falls under "Sky gear that ignored SMN." Extremely unimportant, but sure, people still lowman that stuff.

It's 2 well known fights, what accuracy is needed?

[Alhanelem]

But I do admit that DNC is like B+ when SMN is a terrible B.

B isn't terrible, and staves are 2-handed, so accuracy is not as low as some people think. And if you really do need more accuracy, marinara pizza is nice since you get some attack as well.

Remember that for a long time PUPs were meleeing with C+.

Byakko, and Kirin.

What summoner would want to involve himself with either of these NMs? Neither has anything of interest. (Not saying I wouldn't help a friend, of course- but barring that)

You can give SMN 300 STR/DEX vs a naked WAR using H2H (no weapon) and the WAR will still beat the SMN in melee damage. Since Myrkr does 0 damage, no point in bringing up total DoT damage either.

Nonsense, and the Aftermath adds more damage than most other staff weapon skills could.

I know I keep coming back here, but I hate it. This just keeps going around in circles. Agree to bleeping disagree.

You can argue all day about how much summoner gains from meleeing. You can say the overall total isn't competitive yet, and that's fine, but mister spreadsheet has indicated that the summoner is able to inflict more damage than the avatar. That's both a good thing (because it adds damage) and a bad thing (why is the avatar so weak?). You want to say it's not good enough? That's fine. Go ahead. But meleeing is still better than not if you're able to.

Yeah, didn't think so, but then Myrkr really gains almost nothing

The point of Myrkr isn't to manage MP better than a BP/releaser. The point of Myrkr is to be able to melee and still have no trouble with MP. Myrkr far outweighs wearing a perp staff with low damage. How much more MP you have as a result is not relevant, because you don't run out either way.

[Dallas]

Let's give Kirin a chance. I've already meleed Fenrir.

[Byrth]

Oh good, we've moved on to the pDif defense. Before we do that, would someone mind committing to "anything that matters" outside of Abyssea that you would melee? There's some NMs that drop junk L75 gear, and there's a ton of EPs, there's some new avoidable L90+ trash, and there's Voidwatch.

Let's establish that something (anything) exists that SMN would need sushi.

Any T-VT Dynamis monster/force pop. Any Voidwatch NM. I'd bring a summoner to both of those events, and possibly only those events at the moment. Show me that your Summoner can melee in the two events in the game where I think it is an optimal alliance member right now.

I'd bet some pretty solid gil that you aren't capping hit rate on Dynamis NMs, and I'd bet you even more solid gil that your pDIF is utter shit on them. I know my Dancer's is for sure, and you'd have substantially less Attack than me when you have comparable Acc.

Plus, it's not a "defense," because you haven't shown anything to defend again. In fact, you haven't provided a single piece of data or example to support your statements throughout this entire thread. Everything from you would be anecdotal, but you haven't even provided any anecdotes. They're just statements you've made. Please just admit you're a troll so our curiosity can be satisfied and we can move on.