Why is Summoner the most ignored, misunderstood and broken job?

[Korpg]

You lie for attention. Got it. Talk to yourself.

Yeah, only you are allowed to lie for attention, right? Got it. Go delete your sys32 folder.

[Sasaraixx]

these traits would help us compete but not surpass melees that can stack much more gear for WS/TP and mage DDs that can put on much more MAB in gear. If coupled with 30 BP delay cap I think SMN would have MUCH less to complain about in any facet of our job

I don't know how/why this derailed into a SMN melee debate, but Razushu's suggestions are pretty much in alighnment with my thoughts. Job traits to boost our avatar's attack/mattack and a BP timer cap lowered to 30 seconds would make me very happy. I think avatar's favor and our spirits are poorly implemented and could use serious tweaking. Correcting these issues would solve most of my complaints with the job and lay a good foundation for adding new elements. You have to fix what's broken before you start adding more. That has been a problem with SMN updates up until this point.

[I also wouldn't mind a third category of blood pacts, either for enhancing or enfeebling.]

[Inafking]

SMN's job is simple. Be a time sink as a second job. Everything square has ever done with SMN in this game has required you to have aanother job at maximum level. Hunting pacts, fighting avatars, carby miits, etc. They have changed some things around like with mini fork battles, but the original intent has always been the same. SMN is not popular because it's good as a job. It's popular because it's iconic in the Final Fantasy series. I'm not saying not's not good as a job, but other pet jobs are treated better. I'd just like to go over the perspective of what SMN looks like from the point of view of someone looking to have it as their only main job.

Spells:
- You only get them past lv20.
- Spirit pacts don't become useful until elemental siphon (which is the first good way to restore MP)
- You don't get fenirir/diabolos until/after/around the time you fight Maat.
- After this point, you have to go through Aht Urghan missions to get a pair of Avitars that are uselees in most situations and when they're useful require support from a bunch of conditions.
* So basicly, you have to wait until lv20 to get something that is useful in a party. Then once you get them at 20 those are the ones you use more or less forever. You get some other ones along the way but not used nearly as much.

Perpetuation:
- Good luck getting help with carby mitts when you're lv20.
- Ele Staffs and the first regular perpetuation- gear starts to kick in around the same time at 50/51.
- Up to this point, you've had to use yag drinks to keep yourself going if you're not resting all the time. You also get Avitar's favor around this time.
- Evokers ring is the next big thing, but as you progress in levels, the perpetuation cost is rising so this -1 does not count for much. Oh, and this is also about the point you saying to yourself "why doesen't my AF1 help with perpetuation?"
- Magian / Nyzul / Dynamis gear is avalible to you ny this point. But good luck finding a LS that will help you get it while your job still requires you to rest a lot.
* This is always an uphill battle. Every pact you use is 1 step closer to losing your pet. And with so little gear that has it and how long it takes to get, you spend a lot of time resting and not being useful at all. There needs to be more items to adress this or the overall perpetuation needs to be lowered.

Other notes:
- Blood pact recast times are way too long for stuff that's bundled together.
- My SMN is a Taru. I like to mele as much as the next guy. But with my HP the way it is, if there is any AoE damage mele is out of the question.
* If SMN is for burning MP, split up the pacts or lower the recast timers. If SMN is suppoed to mele, give them more HP or damage- and something that converts the damage they deal to MP more efficiently thn spirit taker. These two things are what keep SMN from being useful in all situations.

I know a lot of what I have to say has been said in this thread, but not in this way.

I honestly think square has no intentions of changing smn. They might add stuff 90+ but it is the way it is for a reason. It's bussy work for fanboys who want to be summoners at any cost.

[Dallas]

Are you saying that a link that exists with a saved state containing both the time and date doesn't exist? Because thats pretty much the definition of HAPPENED.

Yeah, it happened. BG gave credit to me for discovering an indestructible avatar. BG stole their information from a JP site. BG didn't even know how to get the atma.

Then there's that small problem that you have to ignore the word "auto-guard" to keep this conversation going. That's my word for it. It didn't exist before DG and avatars were combined, by me. You have to forget "avatars have -50% pdt" because it is incomplete. Avatars have 100% guard rate, 50% damage reduction on guarded attacks. Good luck finding the word "Auto-guard" on BG wiki.

You can "but, but, but..." all you want. No one was headed down the avatar tanking path but me. DG was supposed to suck because we were wrong about avatars. Let's break down how YOU looked at the world before I discovered DG.

Before DG:
Avatar: 2k HP + Enemy: 400 dmg hits = Avatar dead in 10 hits.

Expected DG:

Avatar: 2k HP + Enemy: 400 dmg hits = Avatar dead in 15 hits. (This is how it works for BST)

Actual DG:

Avatar takes 0 damage. Enemy dead.




It was NOT an accident. It was a mistake, my very fortunate mistake, that changed the way people play SMN and BST.

[Korpg]

It was NOT an accident. It was a mistake, my very fortunate mistake, that changed the way people play SMN and BST.

So now you invented DG.....That is what you are saying, you know that, right?

I wish you would stop lying to not only yourself but everyone else here. I knew about Ducal Guard and what it did to avatars before you posted it, because I found out (by my mistake, I got the atma within a week without realizing how to "unlock" it) what it does. I didn't do extensive studies from it, but I did use it, and I still continue to use it, because it is a good atma. You did absolutely nothing to make any of the claims of yours.

Why don't you start telling the truth and come out that your whole story is a lie, because there are so many holes in it that it looks like Swiss Cheese.

[Razushu]

Yeah, it happened. BG gave credit to me for discovering an indestructible avatar. BG stole their information from a JP site. BG didn't even know how to get the atma.

So you admit you didn't discover DG, I say BG discovered it for sure just that they had it's stats up before you "discovered" it.

Then there's that small problem that you have to ignore the word "auto-guard" to keep this conversation going. That's my word for it. It didn't exist before DG and avatars were combined, by me. You have to forget "avatars have -50% pdt" because it is incomplete. Avatars have 100% guard rate, 50% damage reduction on guarded attacks. Good luck finding the word "Auto-guard" on BG wiki.

You can "but, but, but..." all you want. No one was headed down the avatar tanking path but me. DG was supposed to suck because we were wrong about avatars. Let's break down how YOU looked at the world before I discovered DG.

Or finding it anywhere, everyone was going down the avatar tanking path. I's kind of the fundamental way to play SMN, the avatar is meant to tank for you. Astral meat-shield and distance are SMN's 2 best damage mitigation techniques. How was DG supposed to suck? Any idiot could see from reading it could see it should have given us at least an extra -25% PDT.

Before DG:
Avatar: 2k HP + Enemy: 400 dmg hits = Avatar dead in 10 hits.

Expected DG:

Avatar: 2k HP + Enemy: 400 dmg hits = Avatar dead in 15 hits. (This is how it works for BST)

Actual DG:

Avatar takes 0 damage. Enemy dead.

All three of those scenarios for a good SMN = enemy dead.

It was NOT an accident. It was a mistake, my very fortunate mistake, that changed the way people play SMN and BST.

You changed nothing for no one or don't you get it yet your ideas are laughable(hence you being the laughing stock of these forums and I'm guessing your server) and your claims are wild, incorrect and unsubstantiated.

[Dallas]

Poor Raz. This is all you have left. Denial. Keep believing that you had it within you to come close to accomplishing what I clearly did. I'm leaving you right where you are. The game will fill itself with Hvergelmirs without you.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Poor Raz. This is all you have left. Denial. Keep believing that you had it within you to come close to accomplishing what I clearly did. I'm leaving you right where you are. The game will fill itself with Hvergelmirs without you.

That word, I do not think it means what you think it means since you clearly do no think it applies to you (hint: it does).

[Razushu]

Poor Raz. This is all you have left. Denial. Keep believing that you had it within you to come close to accomplishing what I clearly did. I'm leaving you right where you are. The game will fill itself with Hvergelmirs without you.

Dallas let's be frank for a moment, you have accomplished nothing yet claim to have created the moon and stars. Empyreans aren't that hard to get and if I ever get the urge to be a gimp melee I'll be sure to get one. I'm sure lots of people will go out and build this situational staff, seeing how that's pretty much what this game is anyway.... working towards getting situational gear. BTW trying to zombie NMs on SMN while onlookers rofl at you isn't that much of an achievement. Of course you'll leave me where I am, which funnily enough happens to be a skilled SMN dedicated to the job and respected by my friends on it. You on the other hand will also be left where you are, which happens to be forum troll and general laughing stock.

[Razushu]

I don't know how/why this derailed into a SMN melee debate, but Razushu's suggestions are pretty much in alighnment with my thoughts. Job traits to boost our avatar's attack/mattack and a BP timer cap lowered to 30 seconds would make me very happy. I think avatar's favor and our spirits are poorly implemented and could use serious tweaking. Correcting these issues would solve most of my complaints with the job and lay a good foundation for adding new elements. You have to fix what's broken before you start adding more. That has been a problem with SMN updates up until this point.

[I also wouldn't mind a third category of blood pacts, either for enhancing or enfeebling.]

Avatar's Favor is pretty much the worst implemented JA in the game. It would have been better if they gave it to us as 9 buffs on a shared 1 minute timer with a 3 minute duration that comes from the
Summoner, regardless of whether we have an avatar out.