Why is Summoner the most ignored, misunderstood and broken job?

[Razushu]

Raz, I think you keep jumping to the wrong conclusions.



Avatars were NEVER designed to be disposable. They were designed to be interchangable. You were supposed to access pacts by swapping pets. That is why you can remove one pet and get a new one. If SE had done like PUP and let us remove our pet, but wait 10 min on summoning next because it had taken 5 damage, it would have never worked.

Disposability was just a side-effect, that wasn't planned at all. In fact kiting itself is probably abusing game mechanics, it is just that SE doesn't really care if you kite mobs. They'll just smile and say "Look at that SMN running all over the place. I wonder if he'll survive."

You think SMN = DRK and you claim I'm jumping to the wrong conclusion. I'd say they were designed with both in mind, if they were designed with just interchangablitiy in mind SE wouldn't be so interested in us keeping them out longer. Seeing as the ability to spam throwing avatars at a mob til it dies is the only thing of SMNs's that works completely I'd say it's fair to assume it was part of the design. Kiting isn't against the rules pinning is that's why they fixed it.

That is where you are wrong.

Melee traits:
Resist slow
Auto-refresh

They aren't spectacular, but none of them are needed at backlines where you can just avoid slow, erase your own slow as /WHM, or kneel and rest MP with your clear mind trait.

It is of course still just opinions. Like my opinion is that RDM has refresh to allow them to melee and regain MP. Your opinion might be that RDM is a terrible melee, so they got refresh to be good at backlines instead.


The point though, is that you are ignorant if you can't see things speak just as much for frontline SMN as for backline. None of them are a clear winner. Perhaps because the job is a jack of all trades and sucks at everything, but is intended to do everything.

Resist slow is a pointless trait, But it's hardly a melee trait. Your logic applies to the frontlines too what SAM cares about slow when there's a WHM to erase it. the REsist slow is more than likely because under the wrong circumstances slow would be the death of a SMN just like paralyze and silence, also most jobs past the original 6 get a resist trait regardless of play design so that's still a poor arguement.

Auto-refresh is so we can keep our Avatar';s out longer pure and simple. All forms of MP regeneration were designed not to increase melee capacity, they were designed to help eliminate downtime. SMN has auto-refresh and clear mind because we hemorrhage MP with an avatar out barring refresh/perp gear. I think RDM make a fine light DD they got refresh to eliminate downtime for themselves and party memeber regardless of their other duties at that particular moment.

There's nothing in the job that speaks for frontline at all, they're really isn't we have less fior frontline than any other job the job was designed as a jack of all trades relying on the pet, but the pets need a massive fix. They made SMN as a half job because we are missing all the healing magic they usually have in other FFs(although we can add them via /whm, sch and rdm).

[Neisan_Quetz]

SMN has a G rating in HP j/s, that's below F rating.

[Dallas]

SMN has a G rating in HP j/s, that's below F rating.

Completely pointless argument when the subpar SMN arms himself to the teeth in -hp gear.

[Evilvivi]

Completely pointless argument when the subpar SMN arms himself to the teeth in -hp gear.

I would really like to know what -hp gear a smn would use. Please hum- I mean enlighten me please.

[Dallas]

DG didn't get rid of kiting it made it alittle safer.

Only a little safer? Are you even playing the same game as the rest of us?

I would really like to know what -hp gear a smn would use. Please hum- I mean enlighten me please.

There's an mp build for Myrkr WS, but we're talking about gimp SMN, not the good ones. Same gear, full-timed.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You have the worst HP pool of any mage was the point I was trying to clarify over Mala stating smn hp shouldn't be considered if you think smn is a backline job and that taru should be a backline race. But I digress since you're not even comparing the same thing. Aside from blm using sorc ring any race on Smn will have less hp than said race on any other job. If actually trying to DD through melee you would be subbing Sam, if not you're subbing a mage job and/or /war for procs or something and unless it's some weak mob/has no AoEs period you're better off supporting from the back. You (Dallas) yourself admitted you die from the damage you deal meleeing so at that point you're just being a detriment to the group/you need better melee/healers.

EDIT: Even then blm still has manawall/enmity douse disregarding sub since most blms won't be meleeing.

[Razushu]

Only a little safer? Are you even playing the same game as the rest of us?

It has neither gotten rid of or overhauled it, kiting was already really safe and reliable anyway, so yes only a little safer. I'm still not sure what game you're playing but me and everyone else here are playing FFXI you should try it it's a really good game.

There's an mp build for Myrkr WS, but we're talking about gimp SMN, not the good ones. Same gear, full-timed.

The only gimp SMN here is you mate, that's why you're so afraid to post a gear set let alone link a real character

[Rezeak]

I'm gonna reply to the OP

You really don't understand Summoner at all.

SMN in abyssea can pretty much solo any mob in abyssea it takes time but still it's an impressive thing outside that it does enough DMG to get by and u can astral burn crap for boxes.

honestly theres plenty SMN can do in abyssea and yes it's not a fast DD but thats never what SMN is about.

Outside abyssea it still has it's niche as the safe/low hate DD if you have a had to handle mob (voidwatch this is the case ALOT) SMN can constantly pump DMG out meaning all the rest of the party has to do is stay alive.
still one of the most reliable method of killing crap is Tank party + SMN party.

outside this there is alot of obsolete rubbish on SMN Favors, spirits ect but forget that stuff.

honestly when i read the OP all i got from it was "O SE tell me how to play my job cause i'm too lazy to work it out or ask other useful SMNs"

[Dallas]

You (Dallas) yourself admitted you die from the damage you deal meleeing so at that point you're just being a detriment to the group/you need better melee/healers.

Don't quote me without understanding what you are quoting. The ONLY thing that can't keep hate off me is my avatar. Real tanks can still tank. I have broken SMN, nothing else. I wear -enmity because the job is capped in solo potential ONLY by the terrible performance of our pets. With a minor sacrifice in accuracy/attack (which don't affect my performance much), I can deal 60% more damage than my pets and still function. Yes, I still pull hate because I am that much better than my pets.

And some of you only use those terrible pets...

[Razushu]

Don't quote me without understanding what you are quoting. The ONLY thing that can't keep hate off me is my avatar. Real tanks can still tank. I have broken SMN, nothing else. I wear -enmity because the job is capped in solo potential ONLY by the terrible performance of our pets. With a minor sacrifice in accuracy/attack (which don't affect my performance much), I can deal 60% more damage than my pets and still function. Yes, I still pull hate because I am that much better than my pets.

And some of you only use those terrible pets...

If you think Avatar's are that terrible you need to play SMN as a subpar DD, go level another job. Our pets aren't terrible, they're disposable spike damage dealer's not meant for DPS(only thing holding them back is BP delay timer). You've broken nothing, all you've done is say "I haz stix, I hitz things me uber!" with nothing to back it up, let alone admit melee has situational uses only. On SMN any sacrifice to acc or atk is more than minor seeing as we have pretty much none to start with. Congratulations you can pull hate off the most broken thing in the game, avatars are in need of a big fix have been since day one and they weren't even designed to be DPS. /clap