Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
1. SMN as rare as COR? Haha, no. SMN has never, ever been as rare as COR; as I recall, COR has been the least-played job in the game since its release (yes, less played than PUP). The most recent Vana'diel Census that I've seen, 2009, shows twice as many SMNs as CORs.
Numerically you may be correct, but numbers are not the same as reality. You have to for example consider that you'd have twice as many COR players, if the job wasn't so expensive. That makes COR = SMN in popularity. Then you should consider that COR is a new job, while SMN is an old, meaning there should be more SMNs than CORs purely by years of existence. In addition to that, over half of those SMN numbers are people who leveled it only for astral burning good jobs to 75. So popularity ranked, COR is higher than SMN by far. But due to game exploits, SMN managed to be twice as popular.

3. No, SMN does not need melee gear. PUP was initially intended and conceptualized as a combination melee and pet job. Even since its first appearance in the series, Summoner has -never- been a melee job. Summoners have always been reliant on their summons, with no real melee capability.
What are you blabbering about? B staff being a proof you should not melee, but C H2H is proof you should? Just admit that you only looked at MP and said "Ah, MP, this job shouldn't melee". It is so obvious SMN is meant to melee, but on a wyvern level, being the opposite of a DRG. (Which falls short because wyverns dying isn't so bad, but Summoners dying is slightly workse. Not to mention avatars DoT is terrible compared to a DRG or a pet jug)

BRD is defined by its songs; if a job with other capabilities (i.e. SMN) could match those, BRD would be a completely, utterly useless job. COR, also, is mostly defined by its buffs, which are also unreliable since their strength is determined by dice rolls. SMN buffs may be short, but they're fairly strong and the avatars can deal damage in addition to using buffs.
But Summoner buffs rely on moon phase and time of day, which is worse than rolls, which you actually have a choice with. And if you want to talk strong, shell V is a god send for countering magic damage, but that isn't 3 minutes long. Glittering ruby, which is much worse, is 1 min long. It just doesn't make sense. Good spells lasting 15 min, bad spells 1 min, and they think it is balanced?

Shuerzo or whatever it is called is the best example. BRD can toss this up when needed, SMN has to summon titan, run up, have their global BP timer ready, activate it for 4 seconds, and spend 100 MP. It is like BRD is a million times better for this than SMN. Wouldn't it be enough if BRD was 4 times as good or something instead? Like keep it on Titan only, but make it cost no MP, have a 30 AOE range etc. so all you do is summon Titan, activate it, done.

5. What other gear does SMN really need? Using proper gear, SMN can cap both perpetuation reduction and blood pact delay reduction with no trouble, while still having other slots to boost summoning magic skill or avatar MAB or whatever else you may need.
I'd say anything but the monthly MAB armors we are getting. Either pet melee enhancements like +20% haste, or Summoner melee enhancements like +20% haste. Ideally hybrid sets, like BST and PUP get. Why SMN doesn't get hybrid sets when it is a hybrid job is beyond me. (Even better question is why we get BLM armors)

6. Minor point: DRG's Call Wyvern was it's 2-hour, an ability that's supposed to be incredibly strong; however, it was a pet that was important to DRG's utility and damage, in addition to dying easily and being difficult to heal.
It was the best 2 hour in the game. Imagine having a 2 hour that lasts until "it" dies. While other jobs had instant or 30 seconds 2 hours, DRGs had one that could last 24 hours, and it only needed to last 2 hours before it had maxed out potency.

How easy it died was a problem, but there was no problem with it being a 2 hour. Though most people could only see as far as "Well, we are fighting this BCNM and I want to 2 hour. Why can't my DRG deal massive damage in a short time?" so naturally they'd complain.

Not every spell that BLU or BLM or RDM gets is useful either; see, Deodorize. Does SMN have a higher proportion of less useful spells? Yes, very much so, but I'd rather have weak spirits than no spirits at all.
Do notice that none of those less useful abilites share the same spell timer though. Summoner is the only job with global timers, making a less excellent spell instantly useless due to unable to cast it while doing the best ones. I still think BLU and BLM should have global recasts as well. This would accomplish two things:

1) No BLU or BLM would pull hate, and they'd all live happily ever after for being a hate free job.
2) Everyone would know how terrible of an idea global timers is and we'd have the whole forum in a riot asking for their removal.

My conclusion: No, SMN is not the best job. Could it stand to be better? Yes, of course. However, SMN is able to deal good damage and utilize many full-party buffs with a rather high degree of personal safety, since the avatar is the one doing most of the work and can be quickly resummoned in the event that it is defeated. It is a strong job in its own ways.
I've never said anything else. The job is fine, as a kind of SATA THF without Treasure Hunter ability. We can join a fight, toss in some high numbers every minute, and keep ourselves alive.

But this is like saying, DRK is fine, it has stun. Or PLD is fine, it has cure IV. You can't just look at a single spell or JA, claim it is useful, and then say that it doesn't matter if nothing else works, you have one thing working. Another good example would be to say THF is fine, it has TH, back when TH was hit the mob once and then stand and watch.

What Summoner needs more than anything else, is interactivity. We need something to do between each Predator Claws. While we can toss out hastega, it is kind of pointless if there are nobody needing hastega in the vicinity. While we can toss out evasion aura, it is not sure to help. We could even swap to spirits, and they do nothing. We could run up and melee, but we aren't much better than PUPs in mage gear at melee.

All these "could, but not worth it" parts needs an improvement. You can't make the most jack of all trades jobs ever, and then have everything so weak you end up as a one trick pony.

EDIT: Didn't mean to make this post so long. Sorry for the wall o' text.
Consider your wall of text expanded.