Why is Summoner the most ignored, misunderstood and broken job?

[Razushu]

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui...nsus/10/2.html

Summoner is in the top ten jobs.. They are fine.

tell that to my underpowered avatars and god awful global timer

[Rafien]

tell that to my underpowered avatars and god awful global timer

I've seen summons out damage me, a DRK, that should NEVER happen.

[Razushu]

While some of your points are sound, SMN Really only has 2 options outside of Avatars.

A) Being a gimp Healer. (Face it, Don't lie. Cure IV is gimp, even with 50% Cure potency, Its gimp, and it raises a lot of Enmity).

B) Or Being a Mediocre Melee.

When I'm faced with 2 Options, I chose the one that most productive to my time. If I'm in a party as SMN for whatever reason, and theres also a WHM in my party, I'm chosing Option B, Melee. If i'm The only healer in the party (Which in itself would be absolutely stupid if you're fighting anything stronger than a Land Worm), I'll default to my Gimp healing Abilities.

I have gear for both, I come prepared for both aspects.

Theres obviously situations for everything, But as Mediocre as SMN melee is, Its more productive than sicking your avatar then picking your nose hoping your WHM slips up on their cure duties so you can spend some MP. SMN Melee, Especially in Abyssea where you can stock up on DD Atmas (For Predator Claws) is not awful.

When you get to the bare bones, If your WHM is worth a spit, and for whatever reason You're there on SMN, Your better off Meleeing with your pet if you have a proper build.

Of course its not for Every NM (*Hint: Ones with multiple annoying TP moves where your TP Feed would get in the way), But for some fights, in some situations, Its useful.

Limited though it may be, the Idea is sound. It lacks Frontline Traits yes, But it does not erase the notion of it being able to Melee. WHM lacks any front-line Job Trait, (Maybe aside From afflatus Misery but if that counts so does Garuda's Hastega, Ifrit's Crimson Howl, Etc), But WHM melee is fun/has some places (Limited as it may be).

I'm not saying it can't be geared to melee, any job can. I'm just arguing against the idea that it was designed and implemented as a melee job.

[Dallas]

Of course you're the only one that cares about avatar: defense bonus each piece is only +10 on a disposable pet

If your staff skill didn't blow chunks, your pet wouldn't be disposable. Anyone capable of doing more than scratching the enemy wants a pet that doesn't die.

BTW, the bolded statement is a lie. You can't possibly know something that is, to this day, still unknown. I can tell you, because I bothered to check, that most defense gear for avatars gives a visible increase to defense. Anyone kiting should be using the gear.

If you read all the gear every update, why do you not know anything about your job?

[Razushu]

If your staff skill didn't blow chunks, your pet wouldn't be disposable. Anyone capable of doing more than scratching the enemy wants a pet that doesn't die.

BTW, the bolded statement is a lie. You can't possibly know something that is, to this day, still unknown. I can tell you, because I bothered to check, that most defense gear for avatars gives a visible increase to defense. Anyone kiting should be using the gear.

If you read all the gear every update, why do you not know anything about your job?

Avatars are Disposable it's part of their charm it's how they were designed regardless of whether you're meleeing or not they are still disposable. If you need to wear all pet: survivability + gear and equip x3 tanking atmas so you can beat the NM whats the point in meleeing anyway.

How is re-summonable at anytime with zero downside or cost outside MP not disposable. Disposable is a good thing ask PUP and DRG. Nobody Kiting will be using that gear because you lose out on valuable gear choices to use the def bns for a negligible increase in #Avatar longevity. Why is it negligible you will ask? Because when kiting the Avatar only needs to last long enough to BP and give you time to run to a safe distance so that by the time the NM kills it and reaches you you have a fresh Avatar moving to engage and BP: Rage is ready again.I love the accusation that I know nothing about my main from a guy who has contributed nothing of worth to ANY discussion he's been involved in and cowers from any request to back up his outlandish claims. It's a fairly safe assumption that I or anyone who's ever looked at an avatar know more about SMN than you.

[Dallas]

Poor Raz. No one would ever use that gear in Abyssea because I found a single atma that caps -pdt. Take away DG, and you go back to kiting.

defensive gear = fewer resummons = more time dealing damage = faster kills

Once again, you are stuck wearing one set of gear to pretend you have enough MP to play SMN. If only there were SOME WAY to recover MP without having to waste all your gear slots on -perp.

[Leonlionheart]

Guys you don't have to listen to dallas, he's a lvl 1 rdm

[Malamasala]

Raz, I think you keep jumping to the wrong conclusions.

Avatars are Disposable it's part of their charm it's how they were designed regardless of whether you're meleeing or not they are still disposable.

Avatars were NEVER designed to be disposable. They were designed to be interchangable. You were supposed to access pacts by swapping pets. That is why you can remove one pet and get a new one. If SE had done like PUP and let us remove our pet, but wait 10 min on summoning next because it had taken 5 damage, it would have never worked.

Disposability was just a side-effect, that wasn't planned at all. In fact kiting itself is probably abusing game mechanics, it is just that SE doesn't really care if you kite mobs. They'll just smile and say "Look at that SMN running all over the place. I wonder if he'll survive."

The complete lack of any frontline trait and Final Fantasy canon... also the complete lack of frontline traits

That is where you are wrong.

Melee traits:
Resist slow
Auto-refresh

They aren't spectacular, but none of them are needed at backlines where you can just avoid slow, erase your own slow as /WHM, or kneel and rest MP with your clear mind trait.

It is of course still just opinions. Like my opinion is that RDM has refresh to allow them to melee and regain MP. Your opinion might be that RDM is a terrible melee, so they got refresh to be good at backlines instead.


The point though, is that you are ignorant if you can't see things speak just as much for frontline SMN as for backline. None of them are a clear winner. Perhaps because the job is a jack of all trades and sucks at everything, but is intended to do everything.

[Malamasala]

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui...nsus/10/2.html

Summoner is in the top ten jobs.. They are fine.

Statistics are just lies. According to the list, one would assume BRD and SMN swapped places, and that must be because SMN level 80+ wards are superior to songs, right? Why else would two support jobs swap places if it wasn't their support roles that changed?

The truth is closer to SMNs now not being told "Go away, you are useless" and BRDs not being told "Please leave your party and join ours. We got to have 2 BRDs or we can't exp!". In other words, both jobs are treated as optional party members. Instead of don't want or must have.

[Razushu]

Poor Raz. No one would ever use that gear in Abyssea because I found a single atma that caps -pdt. Take away DG, and you go back to kiting.

defensive gear = fewer resummons = more time dealing damage = faster kills

Once again, you are stuck wearing one set of gear to pretend you have enough MP to play SMN. If only there were SOME WAY to recover MP without having to waste all your gear slots on -perp.

Add DG and you'll still be kiting there's far too many NMs that'll still kill an avatar with DG up(If you don't think so you aren't really doing anything you claim to). DG didn't get rid of kiting it made it alittle safer.

defensive gear = slightly fewer resummons = a little more time dealing damage = slightly faster kills.

unless you want to post evidence to the contarary, seeing as the Bulk of avatar's DD comes from Blood pacts you'd need to show something pretty concrete to validate stacking def gear because even with Karura Hachigane on/off theres never been a noticable difference in Garuda's longevity.

Onjce again you insist on meleeing when unnecessary/ill advised so you can have the same staying power as a full perp/refresh set You know as in I don't need SOME WAY of getting MP back.

Glad to see you're still claiming that you discovered DG I think thats what I missed most of all about you while you were gone the outlandish claims.