Why is Summoner the most ignored, misunderstood and broken job?

[Ulric]

I may have been confusing some of what was said about damage with someone else, or with something you said, I apologize. I agree with you on the timers for BP:Rage/Ward, but I disagree with most everything else. Also, this isn't the old days anymore. I may not understand how things worked back then, but I have a pretty good grasp of how things are now. Thinking outside the box is good, and it sometimes works. But also, it sometimes doesn't. I feel a Summoner meleeing would not work out as well, because going by the lore of this game, and previous Final Fantasy games before it, as was stated before, it is a mage, and that's not the role of that type of job. If you want to melee, there are decent staves you can use for it, feel free to have at it, but I don't think they should add too much to make it oriented for melee. It would be, to me, similar to having a Ninja riding in on a dragon and throwing giant axes at people all willy-nilly.

[Razushu]

Depends on your rating of "really well". A SMN should melee as good as a PUP, since both jobs are at the core identical (the difference being one has MP the other doesn't). If you think PUP melee too well for a SMN to match it, then it isn't my fault that PUP is overpowered.

I agree with nearly everything you say, but SMN was never intended as a frontline melee. Any job can be geared to melee but that doesn't mean they were intended to melee, by all means melee if you want but stop comparing SMN to DRK, DRG and now PUP.

[Dallas]

It took you months to find all the gear with pet: PDT-% on it?

Go read up on it on wiki forums.

http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewt...p?f=17&t=25873

There were:

1) Magian staff. As far as I know, I'm the only one who finished -pdt.
2) Augmented hat, which I had to toss/rebuild.
3) -mdt belt, I camped it for weeks based on bad information. My bad.
4) Several Avatar: Defense Bonus or Enhances avatar defense items. They help, and only I care.
5) 2 -10% pdt Atma, pre-Heroes.

Oh, and this:

6) 3 regen Atma: 15, 15, and 20.

#6 is very important, since the combination of regen and -pdt is why avatar tanking works on some of the toughest NMs. I discovered that even without the existance of DG, pet tanking/kiting capacity would improve an additional 460% in Abyssea. That means I would have to summon my pets once for every five times the average SMN would, IF the mob was strong enough to break through the regen/cures. Yes, melee is VERY possible where your pet can tank it. Talk to any BST.

As for my melee gear surpassing that of my avatar? The solution is -enmity, or a real tank. I can deal 60% more damage than my pet and stay out of harm's way.

[Karbuncle]

1) Magian staff. As far as I know, I'm the only one who finished -pdt.

I have one (Well, Its almost finished...!)

2) Augmented hat, which I had to toss/rebuild

I got this for my BST/PUP :|, Considered it for SMN too, Sucks having mutliple jobs.
.

3) -mdt belt, I camped it for weeks based on bad information. My bad.

Selemnus Belt? I tried camping that, Evil NM.
.

5) 2 -10% pdt Atma, pre-Heroes.

Atma of the Heavens and? Can't think of the other off the top of my head.

[Dallas]

Karb, picking BST over SMN is like picking chocolate over vanilla ice cream. I am glad to hear someone else is going for Shareerevadi -pdt. SE noticed that players like pet tanking, so I expect some gear choices to show up for outside of Abyssea.



The other pdt Atma is Lions. I skipped those when I found out how much more potent regen was for SMN. 50HP regen with 60% -PDT turns into 125 effective regen, where 35HP regen with 70% -PDT is only 116 effective regen. The magic vulnerability is what tips the scale to regen.

Of course, DG "ruined" it all, but we get to leave Abyssea knowing about auto-guard, so the work isn't a complete loss.

[Razushu]

Go read up on it on wiki forums.

http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewt...p?f=17&t=25873

There were:

1) Magian staff. As far as I know, I'm the only one who finished -pdt.
2) Augmented hat, which I had to toss/rebuild.
3) -mdt belt, I camped it for weeks based on bad information. My bad.
4) Several Avatar: Defense Bonus or Enhances avatar defense items. They help, and only I care.
5) 2 -10% pdt Atma, pre-Heroes.

Oh, and this:

6) 3 regen Atma: 15, 15, and 20.

#6 is very important, since the combination of regen and -pdt is why avatar tanking works on some of the toughest NMs. I discovered that even without the existance of DG, pet tanking/kiting capacity would improve an additional 460% in Abyssea. That means I would have to summon my pets once for every five times the average SMN would, IF the mob was strong enough to break through the regen/cures. Yes, melee is VERY possible where your pet can tank it. Talk to any BST.

As for my melee gear surpassing that of my avatar? The solution is -enmity, or a real tank. I can deal 60% more damage than my pet and stay out of harm's way.

I'm sorry but you seemed to misunderstand the mocking tone in my post when I said

It took you months to find all the gear with pet: PDT-% on it?

I was mocking the fact it took you months to find something that it took 20 minutes to find on the ah/wiki sites. Why are you posting forums from Nov last year? Is this you claiming you "discovered" all of those things. Every update(and I'm extremely sure I'm not alone in this) I check the new items section on ffxiah.com to see if my jobs got anything useful and also (again I'm extremely sure I'm not alone in this) when new content comes out I check to see if there's things that my jobs can beat or benefit from(Atmas).

Of course you're the only one that cares about avatar: defense bonus each piece is only +10 on a disposable pet, which is pretty much a total waste of a slot compared to most pieces of useful gear. A big part of what makes BST melee feasible on things is the fact they shed ALL THEIR hate onto their pet every 30s. If you're stacking regen/-PDT% atmas you've gimped you Blood pacts to keep the pet out so you can melee the NM kinda pointless when you can just max out your BPs and kite the thing to death very easily

inb4

Yeah But I discovered them and invented cheese

[Malamasala]

I agree with nearly everything you say, but SMN was never intended as a frontline melee. Any job can be geared to melee but that doesn't mean they were intended to melee, by all means melee if you want but stop comparing SMN to DRK, DRG and now PUP.

I still don't see what gives you the idea it would be a backline job.

HP? If so, then taru are backline races.
MP? If so, PLD and DRK are backline jobs.
Pets? If so, BST and PUP and DRG are backline jobs.

Heck, your avatars are BLMs as jobs, and you say they should be the ones up front meleeing.

The only logical deduction is that SMN is a frontline job. But I won't argue with you that SMN being a backline job is the "normal" thing to think. Like the world being flat years ago. It is incredibly hard to convince people they are wrong, if they have no desire to change their opinion.

I'd suggest you re-roll as galka, and get a view of how SMN without taru HP survives at melee range. You'll be surprised at how little damage you take. (I'd say 95% of the time you are more likely to be yelled at for "feeding TP" than actually being a sponge on MP)

[Razushu]

I'm pretty sure you're trolling but what the hell I'll keep replying

I still don't see what gives you the idea it would be a backline job.

The complete lack of any frontline trait and Final Fantasy canon... also the complete lack of frontline traits

HP? If so, then taru are backline races.
MP? If so, PLD and DRK are backline jobs.
Pets? If so, BST and PUP and DRG are backline jobs.

PLD, DRK, BST, PUP and DRG all have frontline traits they were designed as such SMN was not comparing SMN to any of these is like comparing fish to birds

Heck, your avatars are BLMs as jobs, and you say they should be the ones up front meleeing.

Avatars are BLMs sure(I'd call that poor design though) but they -50% PDT native and hell they're disposable.

The only logical deduction is that SMN is a frontline job. But I won't argue with you that SMN being a backline job is the "normal" thing to think. Like the world being flat years ago. It is incredibly hard to convince people they are wrong, if they have no desire to change their opinion.

The illogical deduction that SMN is a frontline job is more akin to when the notion that the earth was round was gathering support there was one guy saying the earth was hexagonal and made of frozen yoghurt.

I'd suggest you re-roll as galka, and get a view of how SMN without taru HP survives at melee range. You'll be surprised at how little damage you take. (I'd say 95% of the time you are more likely to be yelled at for "feeding TP" than actually being a sponge on MP)

Of course you'll take less damage as a non-DD job meleeing you'd only pull hate off people with MUCH worse gear than you. I don't need to play as a Galka to understand, when I could just level a frontline job on my Taru and see a similar Difference in HP but also a FAR greater difference in ability as a frontline DD

[Karbuncle]

I'm pretty sure you're trolling but what the hell I'll keep replying



The complete lack of any frontline trait and Final Fantasy canon... also the complete lack of frontline traits



PLD, DRK, BST, PUP and DRG all have frontline traits they were designed as such SMN was not comparing SMN to any of these is like comparing fish to birds



Avatars are BLMs sure(I'd call that poor design though) but they -50% PDT native and hell they're disposable.




The illogical deduction that SMN is a frontline job is more akin to when the notion that the earth was round was gathering support there was one guy saying the earth was hexagonal and made of frozen yoghurt.



Of course you'll take less damage as a non-DD job meleeing you'd only pull hate off people with MUCH worse gear than you. I don't need to play as a Galka to understand, when I could just level a frontline job on my Taru and see a similar Difference in HP but also a FAR greater difference in ability as a frontline DD

While some of your points are sound, SMN Really only has 2 options outside of Avatars.

A) Being a gimp Healer. (Face it, Don't lie. Cure IV is gimp, even with 50% Cure potency, Its gimp, and it raises a lot of Enmity).

B) Or Being a Mediocre Melee.

When I'm faced with 2 Options, I chose the one that most productive to my time. If I'm in a party as SMN for whatever reason, and theres also a WHM in my party, I'm chosing Option B, Melee. If i'm The only healer in the party (Which in itself would be absolutely stupid if you're fighting anything stronger than a Land Worm), I'll default to my Gimp healing Abilities.

I have gear for both, I come prepared for both aspects.

Theres obviously situations for everything, But as Mediocre as SMN melee is, Its more productive than sicking your avatar then picking your nose hoping your WHM slips up on their cure duties so you can spend some MP. SMN Melee, Especially in Abyssea where you can stock up on DD Atmas (For Predator Claws) is not awful.

When you get to the bare bones, If your WHM is worth a spit, and for whatever reason You're there on SMN, Your better off Meleeing with your pet if you have a proper build.

Of course its not for Every NM (*Hint: Ones with multiple annoying TP moves where your TP Feed would get in the way), But for some fights, in some situations, Its useful.

Limited though it may be, the Idea is sound. It lacks Frontline Traits yes, But it does not erase the notion of it being able to Melee. WHM lacks any front-line Job Trait, (Maybe aside From afflatus Misery but if that counts so does Garuda's Hastega, Ifrit's Crimson Howl, Etc), But WHM melee is fun/has some places (Limited as it may be).

[Rafien]

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui...nsus/10/2.html

Summoner is in the top ten jobs.. They are fine.