[dev1009] HNM's

[Alhanelem]

Claiming FFXI doesn't have a skill component tells me you don't have any skill nor do you understand what skill is.

[Bumbeen]

Claiming FFXI doesn't have a skill component tells me you don't have any skill nor do you understand what skill is.

Tell me what in FFXI requires skill my friend?

[Raksha]

Do tell, how do you make something rare in a game that does not have a skill component?

Add a skill component.

Next.

[Bumbeen]

Add a skill component.

Next.

Just to continue this discussion, I was thinking about that as well. How would you even add something that only 5% of the playerbase would be able to complete? You would have whatever rare item you wanted given for completing the skillful task, but what is stopping them from doing it for other people? It would have to be limited to a single person fight like the maat fight and be ra/ex.

But then there is also the problem of how can the development team gauge the difficulty of something for it to be only doable by 5% of the players? If they screwed up initially and half the players acquired the item then it's total failure.

It would obviously have to be limited to a single job as there's no way the dev team can balance jobs well enough to where more than 1 job can do it while at the same time limiting it to the very few capable players.

Surely there's something obvious I'm overlooking that would allow this to work flawlessly. Possibly they could have one of the GMs choose a player to give the item to every month, after said player has demonstrated extreme skill at FFXI for the past 6 months. That would allow 12 per year but then of course you'd need someone watching everyone play 24/7. Is there a metric in ffxi like KDR or could one be added that would be able to gauge players abilities?

I guess I should be asking, how does WoW do it? Do they even have items so rare like mythics and d.ring?

[Alhanelem]

Tell me what in FFXI requires skill my friend?

Pretty much everything? There's a clear difference between good and bad players and it's not just the gear they're wearing. It's their behavior. Sure, it can be argued that skill is less important these days with a buyable easy button, but skill makes things possible that wouldn't be otherwise.

I guess I should be asking, how does WoW do it? Do they even have items so rare like mythics and d.ring?

Sure they do. There are tons of super rare items in the game, both that people care about and don't.

[Bumbeen]

Pretty much everything? There's a clear difference between good and bad players and it's not just the gear they're wearing. It's their behavior. Sure, it can be argued that skill is less important these days with a buyable easy button, but skill makes things possible that wouldn't be otherwise.

Well this is just a semantics issue then. I am not talking about morons that have no sense about the job they're playing vs people who take the time to learn. This is more of an intelligence thing.

The reason I say FFXI doesn't require skill, is because me, a couple of my buddies, and probably you can all play any particular job perfectly. We can DD perfectly, support perfectly, tank perfectly. And in games that do require skill in the sense I am saying this would never happen. Being #1 in an fps tourney, or a SF/tekken/what have you tourney requires skill. Hell, a lot of things really, actual racing, professional sports, texas hold'em, there is skill and talent there that clearly delineates a few "best" players. Whereas in FFXI, if we(the non-moron players) see a video of someone doing something, we can probably copy it exactly as done given the same character and equip.

Sure they do. There are tons of super rare items in the game, both that people care about and don't.

Though I do suppose WoW is a different game, and could in fact require skill and so that would be a fine basis for making equipment rare. I wouldn't know, I haven't played it very much.

[Raksha]

Just to continue this discussion, I was thinking about that as well. How would you even add something that only 5% of the playerbase would be able to complete? You would have whatever rare item you wanted given for completing the skillful task, but what is stopping them from doing it for other people? It would have to be limited to a single person fight like the maat fight and be ra/ex.

Why only 5%?

[Bumbeen]

Why only 5%?

Just arbitrary number. Could be 1% or 10%. I just can't figure out how you could limit something to such a small % without timesinking and horrible droprates.

[Sparthos]

Just arbitrary number. Could be 1% or 10%. I just can't figure out how you could limit something to such a small % without timesinking and horrible droprates.

Trying to ramp up difficulty will either end up in a monster that's gimmicky like AV or a marathon like PW.

Apademak and Pantokrator are both difficult enough mobs and could easily have been stand-alone HNMs outside Abyssea. They mix difficulty with timing and both punish poor play. Miss enough stuns and Apademak will retaliate in return and heal Pantokrator enough and he'll answer that with a 2hour ability.

The hardcore can lowman these while other players can team up in larger groups and still get a challenging monster.

That being said, SEs problem is always in implementation. The problem isn't difficulty as plenty of mobs have been challenging enough moreso than rewards are always spread out in the silliest of ways.

Take Voidwatch for instance as their newest event. The random nature intended to keep gear rare leads to the event itself being totally flawed. Instead of using a point system that could then be taken to an NPC for loot, you have the individual treasure system which more often than not gives someone a group they cant use and can't trade.

If SE wants to keep certain pieces "rare" that's fine but implement it better. They could easily just have tacked some trials onto Defending Ring if they felt the rarity of the item would be threatened by a 50% rate on getting KB from Behemoth.